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 Killing Flyers reliably

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snilbog
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PostSubject: Killing Flyers reliably   Wed Apr 20 2016, 21:20

Hi all,

So my brother is working on a crimson death formation to bring against me Shocked . Now I play dark eldar (obviously) and orks, and I was wondering if the dark eldar have any way of killing flyers even remotely effectively, as with orks I usually use traktor kannons.

So I was wondering how you guys kill flyers...

One small thing; I don't want to get a crimson hunter myself. Smile

Cheers

Snil Laughing

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Wed Apr 20 2016, 23:40

Tau allies? Seriously, there's literally nothing in our codex that will reliably bring down enemy flyers. Our own flyers have little AA capability and certainly not enough to bring down a Crimson Death formation. Nothing else in our codex has the Skyfire rule and we don't have any weaponry with sufficient rate of fire and/or twin-linked rule to make it effective purely through weight of dice rolled.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 01:41

An archon on a quad-gun could help if you wanted to run an aegis defense line. Aside from that, Adhemar is right.

If you're ok with taking some eldar allies, you could run an aspect host detachment with 3 units of dark reapers. They have the option to take an eldar missile launcher on the exarch, which has a skyfire missile option with it. Also, the exarch's have the "fast shot" ability, so any weapon they fire, they may fire an extra shot with it. I like to use this trick and take a S9 Icarus Lascannon with an aegis defense line so that one of my exarch's can fire the lascannon twice. Further, all dark reapers have a rule that allows them to reroll misses vs. anything that zoomed or swooped in the last turn, which includes all fliers that aren't hovering.

Recommended loadout would be this:

Aspect Host (+1 BS to all models)
342 points
3x 3 Dark Reapers - Upgrades: 3x Starshot Missiles, Exarch

Then take an aegis defense line with lascannon in your DE CAD for 85 points.

Now, that totals 427 points, which rivals what your brother spent on his fliers. I wouldn't suggest doing this if anti-air is all that it offered. Because they have reaper launchers with starshot missiles, each unit can fire 4 48" S8 AP3 shots that ignore jink saves and hit on 2+.

The crimson death formation is tricky, because they get the free 4+ cover saves. Another option you have is to focus on ability to kill ground units, and just gun for it at the start of the game, trying to kill as much on the ground as possible before he gets his expensive planes on the board. If you're playing a melee focused army and you're able to get into CC before his fliers arrive, it could largely neuter their ability to effect the game.


EDITs: Added range to the shots.

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Last edited by BetrayTheWorld on Thu Apr 21 2016, 16:50; edited 2 times in total
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 04:47

Short answer: no. You could only try the "bomber"

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WhysoSully
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 08:14

@betraytheworld I have been meaning to ask how the swooping hawk mechanic works with "going over" flyers.

The whole automatic side armor hit sounds decent enough and with 18" range I figure moving over the flyer probably wont be that tough when you can deepstrike without scattering due to the exarch.


@OP

If you already win the ground war, just bring your own crimson death formation! We preform great at low points and bringing your own would effectively bring the army lists down 400 points.

If you do, make sure you magnetize one of for a hemlock wraithknight as they are lots of fun to use with our coven formations.
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 12:06

Fliers- for me they haven't done too much. I'd rather have more ground forces from the beginning so it is my 1500 against my opponent's 1100 and make the most of pounding this points difference early. His fliers will probably stay alive the whole game but they can't hover and so they can't grab objectives. Try and park your raiders 18" from a crimson Hunter and watch it crash as it trys to avoid you. That's always fun.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 12:08

@DEfan wrote:
Try and park your raiders 18" from a crimson Hunter and watch it crash as it trys to avoid you. That's always fun.

That only works if the flyer is stunned. Otherwise he just flies straight over you. He's got 18-36" movement!

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 12:59

You can potentially dictate a flight course by preventing a landing space for the blighters. It may well force them into a choice of crash (travelled less than 18") or zoom to a completely ineffective part of the table, or fly into ongoing reserves (impossible if just came on from reserve). Raiders make good obstacles.

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 13:26

There's a lot of movement-based countering to Flyers, and most DE players have had practise with this style of play over the past two editions seeing as we've had very little air to air or air to ground presence in our codex.

Blocking their path with Raiders is achievable, but usually only with a stunned result, as Adhemar describe. A more sensible answer is to play super aggressive turn one. Literally everything in your army should be moving as far forward as it can, and by close of turn two you can be almost entirely in his deployment zone, so his fliers come in in extremely awkward angles and have to fly off the following turn or aimlessly fly into open ground in your deployment.

Personally, I think the Dark Reaper solution that BtW describes is a really good one and flexible at that. Dark Reapers are actually really good against a lot of units that CW Eldar fields.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Killing Flyers reliably   Thu Apr 21 2016, 16:57

@WhysoSully wrote:
@betraytheworld I have been meaning to ask how the swooping hawk mechanic works with "going over" flyers.

It's a really nice "extra" ability that they get, and I've nuked fliers out of the sky with it before, but it's avoidable if your opponent remembers the ability and wants to protect his flier. That said, they DO help set up "No fly zones" where fliers that come in are in instant danger of dying the following turn.

Also, if you use swooping hawks, I'd rarely ever start them in reserve. Their ability to move 18" surprises too many opponents into losing 3 tanks on turn 1, and for the ones that don't, by starting them on the board turn 1, you can jump off into ongoing reserves in their first movement phase so that they [i]automatically[/i] deep strike on in turn 2 instead of having to roll a dice for it. Wink

Being on the board just gives them TONS of options. I've considered arming the exarchs with power lances to use them for first turn charges against people who set up right on their deployment line.

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