HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Sslyths and you

Go down 
AuthorMessage
hydranixx
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 479
Join date : 2013-11-26

PostSubject: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 06 2016, 23:25

Everytime I look at Sslyth and their delicious statline, and think about taking one or two in an army, I want to take four or five instead.

I kinda want to deep strike 4 of them in a Raider with an Archon and some Medusae, but I also want to just throw 5 or 6 Sslyth in an Enhanced Aethersails Raider with an Archon and turbo boost into enemy lines turn 1, not unlike Grotesques might do.

How do you lovely people Archons play your Sslyth?

_________________
"Of course you should fight fire with fire! You should fight everything with fire."
Back to top Go down
The Red King
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1239
Join date : 2013-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Thu Apr 07 2016, 00:26

I think most people find them to be effective on the shelf lol.

Joking aside I do like them in a similar role to grots except with less wounds but better armor (negligible) and shooting. Not to mention they are not bulky so you could stick 9 w/archon into a raider if you were inclined but as far as point by point basis, 6 sslyth (equivalent points) in a raider is 10 points more then 4 grots (the most you can fit in a raider with an IC).

Comparison.

12 wounds at T5 for both units. Tie
Same ws. Tie
BS 4 for the ssylth, BS 1 for grots. Clear win for ssylth as the Grotesque only shooting is the abysmal liq gun.
Same initiative/LD. Tie.
Now 6 ssylth put out 30 attacks on the charge at strength 5. 4 grots put out 16. Unless you are outnumbered where they will have between 20-28. This is a bit of a tie as the grots have less attacks (by varying margins) but the 4+ poison and lethal dose mean no toughness will slow them down and they will most likely reroll to wounds which is really big. However if you factor the shooting in as well the ssylth will come out slightly ahead. Lethal dose is a nice bonus but not really relevant to most cases.

So though this is all theory hammer I think most people don't use ssylth because it's an over priced finecast model and not nearly as easy to convert.

This is also assuming you don't take a Grotesquerie which depending how you roll can really help the grots.

So I think the ssylth are a decent alternative for a Kabal list or a tournament with detachment restrictions.

My 2 cents.

_________________
For Khaela Mensha Khaine!
Back to top Go down
nexs
Wych
avatar

Posts : 766
Join date : 2014-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Thu Apr 07 2016, 04:00

I usually run 5 sslyth and a medusae in a racked raider. I should run 9 and a medusae for maximum death per point.
not only do they have mucho shoozting, they are also on the higher scale of combat units. I like them.
Back to top Go down
Skari
Wych
avatar

Posts : 928
Join date : 2011-12-12
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Thu Apr 07 2016, 05:27

9 and a lhamean in a rack raider for maximum Killy power.
Back to top Go down
http://patreon.com/skaredcast
Rhameil
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 45
Join date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Thu Apr 07 2016, 14:00

I've been using 3 with 2 Medusae and Archon in a raider, but only because I don't have more.

This is just enough for the unit to be majority toughness 5, but as I said I want more.
Back to top Go down
hydranixx
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 479
Join date : 2013-11-26

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Thu Apr 07 2016, 22:30

9 Sslyth and 1 Lhamean seems risky. A single precision shot, or unlucky random allocation result, and you're down to Ld3.

I like a mix of Sslyth, with a few Medusae/Lhameans sprinkled in as well. The Archon seems like a grudge purchase most of the time, but with T5 he actually isn't too bad.

I'm thinking of taking 4 Sslyth and 2 Lhameans in a Raider to a 400pt tourney. Plan would be to simply throw them down the throat of the enemy on turn 1 if there's no S10 present. Do you guys reckon they do can enough between them to justify their cost in such a tiny list?

_________________
"Of course you should fight fire with fire! You should fight everything with fire."
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2934
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 04:54

I am not sure if you can put in enough anti tank for what's left...
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 851
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 14:56

So I ran the Mathammer yesterday, and for the above number of models in squads (thanks Red King), against MEQ the amount of kills were approx:

Sslyths: 3.4 kills
Grots: 2.6 (without Rampage) or 3.6 (with Rampage, averaging 24 attacks).

So the two units are about equal (my numbers may be slightly off, I dont have my calcs in front of me).

What do people use to proxy the Sslyths? Can they be kit-bashed like Grots from the Crypt Gouls?
Back to top Go down
The Red King
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1239
Join date : 2013-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 16:47

It's only fair to include the sslyth shooting since that's a big part of their bonuses over grots.

Reaper miniatures snakemen are good. I just cut off the bow and added a shard carbine set of arms.

Needs a little more armor though. I honestly want a GW ssylth. They look really cool lol

_________________
For Khaela Mensha Khaine!
Back to top Go down
Rhameil
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 45
Join date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 20:16

I quite like the models. I just wish they were plastic and cheaper
Back to top Go down
mika
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 36
Join date : 2014-10-05

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 21:09

A friend of mine made 5 Slyths from tyranid Raveners wit some lizardmen bits. They look awesome and he is using them all the time.
Back to top Go down
Rokuro
Wych
avatar

Posts : 619
Join date : 2014-11-25

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Fri Apr 08 2016, 21:20

I thought about using them in big units as shock troops, but as it turned out, Kabalites and Venoms bring more firepower for the same points, while Reavers and Grotesqes outperform them in close combat.

Now I take three Sslyth and one Medusae together with a melee Archon in a Venom. Their purpose in my army is to protect my warlord an his Marine-melting pet, their own shots and attacks being mostly an eaqualizer against regular ten-man enemy units.
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 851
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Tue Apr 12 2016, 12:22

Ok, so I ran the numbers again. A squad of 7 Sslyths is equal to 5 Grots (i am ignoring transport capacity concerns here for the sake of Mathammer).

If the Grots dont get Rage (which happens a fair amount), and there is no charge bonus.

MEQ:
Sslyths = 3.1
Grots = 3.0

GEQ:
Sslyths = 7.8
Grots = 6.5

TEQ:
Sslyths = 1.6
Grots = 1.5

As you can see, without Rage the Sslyths are actually better in combat than the Grots. Grots can pull ahead if they get Rage, but I find that unlikely as you need to have a HQ in the squad for that sweet Ld. Plus the Sslyths have decent shooting, and access to the Lhamean for the 10 pt Ld boost (so no need for an IC).

I think Grots may not get a seat on my next raid.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7207
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Tue Apr 12 2016, 12:44

What about survivability? Both have T5 and FNP but Sslyth have 2W and a 5+ save vs Grots with 3W and a 6+ save. There's not that many AP6 weapons out there so I suspect 5+ and 6+ saves are not that much different in reality but it's probably fairly close overall.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Tue Apr 12 2016, 15:45

First off, thanks for the initial analysis Red King. I never actually math hammered them out concerning their melee potential.

They actually sound like a better alternative to grots, with 1 caveat: Because their wounds are spread out across a larger number of models, they're more vulnerable to templates and blast templates than grotesques are. So they'll take more wounds from these.

_________________
Back to top Go down
The Red King
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1239
Join date : 2013-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Tue Apr 12 2016, 17:30

Happy to be of assistance. I've got one official ssylth on its way and about 5 half converted from the reaper miniatures snake men. It's a $3 figure that needs only minor conversion work.

_________________
For Khaela Mensha Khaine!
Back to top Go down
hydranixx
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 479
Join date : 2013-11-26

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 13 2016, 02:15

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
They actually sound like a better alternative to grots, with 1 caveat: Because their wounds are spread out across a larger number of models, they're more vulnerable to templates and blast templates than grotesques are. So they'll take more wounds from these.

Don't forget that having only 2 wounds means that they're also less worried about Instant Death. Grotesques tend to break out in a sweat if your opponent has any force weaponry, let alone an entire army of them ie *Grey Knights*

Sslyth on the other hand... have the option to pair up with ap3 flamers to shoot instead of charging.

*None of this matters if there's no Grey Knights in your meta, of course Razz

_________________
"Of course you should fight fire with fire! You should fight everything with fire."
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 13 2016, 02:28

That's true. I do run into more templates and blast templates than instant death weapons, however.

_________________
Back to top Go down
Maple Tiishay
Slave
avatar

Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-11-20
Location : Saskatchewan

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 13 2016, 06:10

In regards to putting sslyth on a raider with splinter racks, they bring a unique opportunity to the table by giving our shooty raiders that extra 6 inches of cushion while still supplying devastating firepower. This is a role that should be filled by trueborn, imho, but if it weren't such a point sink I am sure that we would see this tactic used frequently in dark Eldar games

_________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man, is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Back to top Go down
hydranixx
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 479
Join date : 2013-11-26

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 13 2016, 08:01

That's true, and they also have the same quantity of shots as 3 Kabalites do if they are between 13" & 18" away, for the same price. It's worth noting that they're several times more sturdy than Kabalites if things go tits up and the Raider explodes. But they need at least one source of decent Ld to work.

_________________
"Of course you should fight fire with fire! You should fight everything with fire."
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 851
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   Wed Apr 13 2016, 13:09

I think the extra models in the squad vs Grots is a wash.

Pro:
-Extra attacks on the charge
-Not as fearful of ID
-Easier to position unit to take wounds without killing models
-Easier to get into CC (debatable)

Con:
-Easier to hit with blast/templates


As for the Mathammering the survivability, with a 10 man Tactical squad charging you (with 20 attacks) these are the results

Sslyths = 1.5 wounds taken
Grots = 1.9

As you can see its a negligible difference. Same with shooting.

To kill a MEQ with overwatch we need to have 12 Sslyths shooting (unit only goes up to 10 though). And it takes 3 Sslyths regular shooting to kill one MEQ.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Sslyths and you   

Back to top Go down
 
Sslyths and you
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: