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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Adepticon Overview   Mon Apr 04 2016, 17:58

A quick overview of the event:
As some may remember, I was attending Adeptiocon 2016, and had planned to bring a Gallant Lance backed up by Dark Eldar. Sadly, i did not finish my Lance in time, so I went with the other list... MSU.

I had stated earlier Dark Eldar auto lose kill point missions... especially at major events. Did this happen?

Well, to begin with, my list was Dual Cad, 9 venoms 12 raiders, 4 lahmeians, 6 units of 5 warriors.
21 vehicles, after the "switcharoo", a total of 16 objective secure vehicles. Not too shabby!


Game 1: Versus Chaos Daemons

He Had- fateweaver, belakor, a HUGE unit of seekers of slaanesh, 2 pink horror units, A soulgrinder  of tzeentch and other assorted nasties.

I won the roll to go first and did.
After turn 1, the seekers were wiped off the table, the soulgrinder was a smoking wreck, and Belakor was hit for 1 wound.

He went and summoned, tried to get angles, etc but nothing he could do.

My turn 2 wiped everything except Belakor and Fatey off the board. He conceded the game.
Max Score- 30 Points

Game 2- versus Grey Knights/ Tigerius/ Dev cents.

This game was NASTY. he went first, drop podded in 2 large grey knight units, combat squadded them to 4 units, and cast purifying flame for each. Than is a 9" nova (18" circle) doing 2d6 str (6-7?) hits with no cover on every model touched.
I lost over HALF of my vehicles in one turn.

My turn 1, the warriors that fell out of the vehicles moved closer, all the still mobile vehicles moved back, and everyhing opened up on the grey knights, ignoring the rest of his army. When the smoke cleared, all the grey knights were dead.
I then played the "distance" game. his longest range was 24", mine was 36, so i kept moving and shooting. He conceded on turn 4.
Max Score- 30 Points

Game 3- Versus Skitarii War Convication
I am not even sure what he had in his list, but it is online. he played Aaron for first place (but unlike Aaron his list was legal..)
It was a kill point mission.
He went first
He had a 2+ cover for two turns.
I lost and lost bad, but the game went the full 6 turns. It wasnt ever close due to kill points, but I dropped his model count to a fifth of what he started with.
If I had to lose, I'm glad it was to a player vying for first.

Max loss- 0 points

Game 4-
Chaos Marines.  He had a brass scorpion, some special rhino from forgeworld, a laser battery from forgeworld (large blast str 10 ap 1) Ouch! and a bunch of marines and cultists.

I had no clue how to handle the Brass scorpion, so i just ignored it.

before the game began, he said, and i quote:" I hope you put up a better fight than my last opponent, He only lasted 10 minutes"
Laughing
I simply replied "Well, I will try my best, and i hope you don't table me too quickly"

He went first, and dropped a couple raiders, and charged 18" with the scorpion dropping another! Holy crap, an 18" charge!

My turn, and the laser batteries , the rhino and each and every marine was gone.

My opponent was no longer as smug as he was in the begining. Also, during movement, i surrounded the scorpion with troops.

his go, he was PISSED he could not move his scorpion... he killed nothing that turn.

My turn, 1 unit of cultists and the scorpion were left. I had already won the game, it was impossible for him to win, (or even move in the scorpions case) but he insisted on playing it out.
It took 6 full turns to remove that darn scorpion, but DE won the day handily...

Max points- 30


Tournament End, and I had the best Dark Eldar showing, and was 34th place overall out of 219 players (not too good painting scores sadly).

I am pretty confident that the knight/DE combo list would have fared better. Don't get me wrong, the Dark Kin put a beatdown on almost every army it saw, and people had quit before their second turn, but the kill point missions... man if they were removed from the game, DE would be top-tier!

until then, they need a little help.

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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 09:41

great result, well done! 3-1 with dark elder is pretty awesome.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 10:41

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Also, during movement, i surrounded the scorpion with troops.

his go, he was PISSED he could not move his scorpion... he killed nothing that turn.

Great results but why could the Scorpion not kill anything? It could still fire all it's weapons (at different targets), charge and stomp, all of which are pretty much guaranteed to kill DE.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 12:53

It did, but jink, staying out of range and just too many vehicles prevented it from being an issue. It was a progressive kill points game, and the game was technically over round 2. He could not catch up.

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 15:01

Awesome showing, I would love to see your list?
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 15:53

1850 Pts - Codex: Dark Eldar Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1850

: Combined Arms Detachment (43#,)
  0 Court of the Archon,
     1 Lhamaean,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  0 Court of the Archon,
     1 Lhamaean,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Venom + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider, + Dark Lance  x1
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1

: Combined Arms Detachment (42#, )
  0 Court of the Archon, 0 pts
     1 Lhamaean,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  0 Court of the Archon, 0 pts
     1 Lhamaean,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  4 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Sybarite,  (+ Haywire Grenades  + Phantasm Grenade Launcher )
     1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Venom,  + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider, + Dark Lance x1
  5 Kabalite Warriors,
     1 Raider, + Dark Lance x1
  1 Raider, + Dark Lance x1
  1 Raider,  + Dark Lance x1

Validation Report:
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules




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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 16:01

Nice NOW imagine if the rumors for free raiders, were to come true. Smile
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Tue Apr 05 2016, 22:31

what was wrong with Aaron Aleong's list?
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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 01:17

Jesus. Well done. Even thinking about painting that many vehicles makes me scared.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 02:08

Now that's a scary list if ever I've seen one.

I can just imagine that Brass Scorpion milling around aimlessly trying to shoot this numberless fleet. I can also imagine the owning player's frustration, and since he seems like a bit of a dick (his comments about lasting longer than the previous player...), I'm not even sorry for him.

@Skulnbonz wrote:

I really, really like what you've done with some of the Venoms - having sails instead of wings and the dual cannons up top. I'd really like to try something similar in future Venoms of mine. Cheers for the inspiration :3

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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 06:22

Congrats on a successful slave raid! I think the list is good, but your generalship is even better from what you've described, especially facing some of the typical nasty list on a tourney.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 13:36

Thank you.
I made those venoms before the official models came out, they are kitbashed eldar vipers and sails/ weapons from raiders. My guess was kind of close, but in truth I like the modified ones better than the official venoms. I used both to distinguish between Objec Secured and non objec secured.

My last opponent, I dont think he was a dick, he was just a bit cocky (pun intended), saw dark eldar and thought it was an easy victory. Halfway through the game, my friend came up and whispered to me 'now remember, he tabled his last opponent in 10 minutes!' ... it took all i had not to laugh, as at that point all he had left was the Scorpion.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 18:11

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
Also, during movement, i surrounded the scorpion with troops.

his go, he was PISSED he could not move his scorpion... he killed nothing that turn.

Great results but why could the Scorpion not kill anything? It could still fire all it's weapons (at different targets), charge and stomp, all of which are pretty much guaranteed to kill DE.

If you surround it you can make sure it cant charge. You basically get 1" away (this works with knights to some degree as well) with multiple units and make sure it cant move to engage just a single unit - which it has to do as a single model when it charges.

If you can make it so it physically cant engage just 1 unit, it cant move or charge

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 19:38

I agree that it can't move but it surely can charge right? I'm should be able to just take the one inch forward or to pivot to charge..?

And can't it just multi charge several units in front at once?
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 19:53

No he flamed or charged the warriors. I said he "Killed nothing", but should have said "He killed nothing of any importance."
In all honesty, he should have thrown in the towel but he wanted to play out every single turn. he knew he could not win in any way, but he refused to give up! Kinda like that, but at the time, it was the end of game 4, I was hungry, and I had to keep playing a game that no matter what happened would make no difference in the outcome.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 21:55

It should've been your turn to be smug and simply ask him to invite him for some snacks if he finally concedes...
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Korazell
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Wed Apr 06 2016, 22:48

Quick question,

Why no ravagers?

I see tons of raiders, which is really cool, as they are super cheap, but no ravagers?


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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Thu Apr 07 2016, 12:33

The synergy of the army was to get as many vehicles in it as I could. Ravagers, if they move more than 6" can really only shoot 2 lances. That clocks in at 125 points.
2 raiders are 120, can shoot 2 lances, can shoot at 2 separate targets, have 3 more hull points, can be obj secured or carry troops, which can also shoot, all for 1 less armor value.
It was a no-brainer

Until GW gives back the move 12 and shoot all weapons AND gives the ravager a point decrease, I feel it is a little better to have raiders.

Now in a kill point mission, ravagers all the way Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Thu Apr 07 2016, 12:42

@Massaen wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
Also, during movement, i surrounded the scorpion with troops.

his go, he was PISSED he could not move his scorpion... he killed nothing that turn.

Great results but why could the Scorpion not kill anything? It could still fire all it's weapons (at different targets), charge and stomp, all of which are pretty much guaranteed to kill DE.

If you surround it you can make sure it cant charge. You basically get 1" away (this works with knights to some degree as well) with multiple units and make sure it cant move to engage just a single unit - which it has to do as a single model when it charges.

If you can make it so it physically cant engage just 1 unit, it cant move or charge

I kind of see what you're getting at here but I don't think it works in reality, for the very same reason that a single model can never multi-charge. One unit will always be closer than another unit, even if it's only by fractions of a millimeter. So when a single model charges multiple units, as soon as it contacts one unit it stops moving and therefore cannot contact any other units. By the same token, if surrounded by enemy models you can always charge, as charge moves can bring you within 1" of enemy models as long as you're not base to base with a unit that you're not charging.

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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 00:18

@Skulnbonz wrote:
The synergy of the army was to get as many vehicles in it as I could.  Ravagers, if they move more than 6" can really only shoot 2 lances. That clocks in at 125 points.
2 raiders are 120, can shoot 2 lances, can shoot at 2 separate targets, have 3 more hull points, can be obj secured or carry troops, which can also shoot, all for 1 less armor value.
It was a no-brainer

Until GW gives back the move 12 and shoot all weapons AND gives the ravager a point decrease, I feel it is a little better to have raiders.

Now in a kill point mission, ravagers all the way Smile

I never thought about it that way...

Alot of list building I run into, with people lending advice, is that ravagers are a mandatory aspect. I mourn that I can't load up a raider with wyches with haywires, but, thats alright.

What is your preferred anti-AT in general?

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 14:55

The best anti tank is without a doubt the ravager. This can be supplimented with blasters and raider lances. In fact, i have been leaning more toward that than ravagers. Competitively, I would not touch scourges with a 10 foot pole. Love the model, almost useless on the table top.

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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 15:42

Useless? Why?
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Korazell
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 16:06

Is it though?

After looking at your list I thought it was just a weird list...but now I'm wondering if it doesn't have the right idea.

Now, granted, this is just craziness due to this codex being so poor, but, a ravager unless it's sitting there really doesn't do a whole lot more than the two raiders, like you said.

They also are a achillies heel of the DE army, at least as I see it.

Three ravagers are dedicated anti-tank, we don't have missle launchers, we don't have plasma guns on our troops really, we run kabalites with splinter guns or wyches with splinter pistols. It makes it rather easy for a opposing force to take them out and it's like breaking our spine, more or less.

Building a list around them for all your AT sounds more like a trap the more I think about it, which is why I think I like your approach best...

I really hope those DE rumors are true. :I

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 18:36

@CptMetal wrote:
Useless? Why?
Because 120 points for 5 toughness 3 models with a 4+ save is laughable.
If you deploy them, they will be wiped off the board turn 1. If you deep strike them, hope they dont scatter, hope at least 3 hit and glance a vehicle, hope that vehicle has no cover or invul save (or 4 hull points), they will be able to glance out a vehicle if they are lucky BEFORE they are blasted off the table.

So you may have just spent 120 points to take out a Rhino your opponent got for FREE by taking some stupid formation.
For fun games, have at it, in the world of scat bikes (you have FNP? Nope were str 6!) warp spiders, and even just marines with bolters, Scourges are a laughable waste of points.

-Love the model though!

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Adepticon Overview   Fri Apr 08 2016, 18:39

@Korazell wrote:

Building a list around them for all your AT sounds more like a trap the more I think about it



My sentiments exactly. The last 4 tournaments I attended I did not use a single Ravager, and I did not miss or need them in any game i played.

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