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 1850 ITC Rough List Planning

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Woozl
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PostSubject: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sat Apr 02 2016, 18:51

Hi All,

Prepping for the upcoming BAO, and I have 3 rough ideas for lists that I'm thinking about running. None of these are nailed down, so I'm looking to improve them. Only rough requirement are that I want to keep Dark Eldar as a primary focus, either in CAD or Coven form.

List 1:
I like the potential synergies with this list


DE CAD
Succubus [Archite glaive, Haywire Grenades, Splinter pistol, The Armour of Misery]
1x [3x Grotesques, 1 Aberration], Raider, Aethersails, Dark Lance
2x Ravager [Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance]
2x [5x Kabalite Warrior], Dual Venoms
FA Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Enhanced Aethersails]
Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 6x Reaver]

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
5x Talos [Close combat weapon, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]

Formation: Cast of Players
Death Jester [Haywire grenades]
Shadowseer [Haywire grenades, Mastery Level 2, Shuriken Pistol, The Mask of Secrets]
4x Player [Close combat weapon, Shuriken Pistol]
Troupe Master [Close combat weapon, Haywire grenades, Shuriken Pistol]

List 2:
Meaty units, lots of CC. Could move around CC weapons, likely should pick up a 3rd ravager
 

DE CAD
Succubus [Archite glaive, Haywire Grenades, Splinter pistol]
3x [5x Kabalite Warrior], Venom Dual Cannons
2x Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 5x Reaver], Arena Champion w/ Agonizer
2x Ravager [Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance]

Formation: Dark Artisan
Cronos [Spirit Probe]
Haemonculus [2x Close combat weapon, Splinter Pistol, The Vexator Mask, Webway portal]
Talos [Chain-Flails, Twin-linked heat lance]

Formation: Grotesquerie
2x [3x Grotesques], Aberration, Raider w/ Aethersails
Haemonculus [2x Close combat weapon, Splinter Pistol]

List 3:
A bit more venom-spammy / MSU. Less robust than the first two


DE CAD
Succubus [Archite glaive, Blast Pistol, The Armour of Misery]
3x [4x Kabalite Warrior], 1 w/ Blaster, Venom Dual Cannons
1xReavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 5x Reaver], Arena Champion [Agoniser]
2x FA Venom Dual Cannon
2x Ravager [Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance]

The Heroes' Path [Death Jester]
Death Jester [Haywire Grenades]
Shadowseer [Haywire grenades, Mastery Level 2, Shuriken Pistol, The Mask of Secrets]
Solitaire [Harlequin's Kiss, Haywire grenades]

Formation: Grotesquerie
2x [3x Grotesques, Aberration], Raider w/ Aethersails
Haemonculus [2x Close combat weapon, Sindriq's Sump, Stinger pistol]
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sat Apr 02 2016, 21:26

Personally not a fan of any of them, but I am biased as I play this type of list competitively on a regular basis. It seems like you're trying to take advantage of the leadership shenanigans/freakshow stuff, but you're leaving out the best faction at it, as well as the best item for it from DE.

Eldar kill based on leadership better than anyone else due to their non-failing psychic rolls on shriek, and the best anti-leadership bomb DE have is the archangel of pain.

Aside from that, there are some other options that would work better, but that I'm not going to go into yet because I may also play at the BAO, using a list with the advice that I'd have to give you were I to extrapolate further. Good luck with whatever you decide! Wink

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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sat Apr 02 2016, 21:54

Eh, I can drop the leadership modifiers easily enough. I'm actually not really going for a freakshow type setup and perhaps those points are wasted. I'm not a fan of trying a WWP portal in with so little psychic dice (hence why it is missing) and also without reserve manipulation support.

When you say "this type of list" are you referring to a freakshow list? In that case yes, I expect it would look significantly different from this. Archangel of pain is great but for 1) lack of effectiveness against marine armies (perhaps not a dealbreaker) and 2) requires yet another HQ tax to tote it around in addition to AoM (which you could also skip).

Part of the reason to stay Dark Eldar focused is that it what I already have painted. Going heavy Eldar allies in any form would take more hobby time than I have available before July. I can flex here and there to add units, but not wholesale add large chunks.

Hard decision though. The goal is to stay mostly DE. Maybe Cosairs to add a Jetbike prince and maybe a Warp Hunter are perhaps another option.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sat Apr 02 2016, 22:41

Right, if you're not going freakshow, there is no real reason for AoM, in my opinion. The invuln isn't good enough to be much of a factor, and the leadership modifier will only matter against things that you will likely already defeat by a great enough margin to sweep anyhow. Against the ones you won't defeat by a large margin, they're the most likely to have ATSKNF or fearless, so it doesn't matter either way.

That said, that's the same argument for using archangel of pain, except that against the things you COULD sweep with your melee unit, they're far less expensive, which means more numerous. The archangel takes care of that for you, thinning lots of units pretty well.

Anyhow, I guess I need to know more about what your objective is, then. In my opinion, the hero's path formation is too expensive to not be doing leadership shenanigans. 2 of the heroes there are suited to it, so if you're not doing it, I'd probably drop the entire formation and go a different route.

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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sat Apr 02 2016, 23:06

Forum ate my reply.

Short version:

The goal is a melee oriented list that relies on coven units to take pressure off supporting units. The coven formations do this well. They can also munch light vehicles. Reavers add a bit to that, as well as to mobility for scoring.

Supporting units like venoms and ravagers do what they do.

Any allies would either add to the melee focused goal, or fill in some gap.

Regarding secondaries, first blood is hard to avoid giving up, but it can possibly be done with the coven formations involved. Likely not on my side. DA can ensure you don't give up warlord.

Expecting lots of gladius, I want to be able to munch as many light vehicles and combat squads a turn as possible.

AT is a weakness. Mitigated by some CC (light vehicles), some lances, and possibly allies. Knights are an issue, as 4+ invulns halving AT shots are tough to get around. Haywire is a solution but no real cheap way to do it. Raider with WWP is an option, but without reserve manipulation is risky (and blasterbon are meh which means Eldar).

No real AA, could do a razorwing or crimson hunter, but dominating the skies is not in the plan.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 00:43

Forum ate my reply too. I tried to submit this edit earlier.

EDIT: You know what, now I feel like a douche. I skimmed over a bit the first time around and only really focused on the first and last list. I actually really think list #2 is fine, and would only make a couple small tweaks, swapping out the aether sails on the grots raiders and the webway portal from the haemonculus. The DA formation provides such nice defensive buffs to your list that it seems like a waste to not have it on the table turn 1, and the table presence it provides while moving up the middle of the table can provide a considerable amount of mid-table control

Doing the above, I'd probably put a haywire blaster and an ichor injector on the Talos. That would leave you with 90 points leftover to spend where you see fit. If you wanted to get another 5 warriors with a dual splinter venom, you could do so by dropping the vexator mask from the haemy and the haywire grenade from the succubus, but it's a tradeoff.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 00:47

Much obliged, thanks for the input. Good to have a critical eye. All those suggests on list #2 are good. I'll test it out and give it a try.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 01:01

Cool, let us know how it goes and what you decide. You have plenty of time to try lists out before BAO. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 04:31

So along the lines your edits to list #2 above, here is a truly stripped down version that favors boys over toys.

Basically, you forgo extra cc weapons and upgrades on the haemonculi and reavers in favor of another venom and razorwing. Could also swap for another ravager. I'm probably going to test both versions, but my thinking right now is that a 51 pt arena champion isn't really worth it when the alternative is simply more stuff. The other upgrades then fall out to make the switch.

Alternate List #2 from above

Succubus [Archite glaive, Haywire Grenades, Splinter pistol]

3x [5x Kabalite Warrior] Venom, Dual Cannons

Razorwing Jetfighter [2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missile, Twin-linked Splinter Rifle]

2x Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 6x Reaver]

2x Ravager [Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance]

Formation: Dark Artisan

Cronos [Spirit Probe]
Haemonculus [2x Close combat weapon, Splinter Pistol]
Talos [Chain-Flails, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]

Formation: Grotesquerie

3x Grotesques, Aberration, Raider

4x Grotesques, Raider
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 04:51

I couldn't agree more. You, sir, catch on very quickly! I was actually going to suggest that you drop those as well, but didn't want it to seem like I was trying to change your list too much so I deleted it from my post. Agonizer champs have a tendency to die ingloriously because of their 5+ armour. So many things have free AP5 in melee. Kroot will own you. Haha.

I'd probably go with the ravager over the additional razorwing due to the mass of your own infantry that will be encroaching on the enemy by the time a flyer arrives. You don't really want to drop 4 large blast S6 templates next to all your T5 and T7 stuff do you? Wink


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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 05:07

Thanks! Much obliged. Let me know if you end up going, will definitely want to say hi.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Sun Apr 03 2016, 06:23

I'll try. I have a tendency to make last minute decisions on these things. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Fri Jul 15 2016, 16:36

BAO List for tomorrow:

Dark Eldar - Coven of Spliced Beauty / Andrew
Formation: Corpsethief Claw

5x Talos [CCW, Chain Flail, Heat Lance ]

CAD 1

HQ- Court of the Archon [1x Lhamean]

2x Troops -
5x Kabalite Warriors, 4 Splinter Rifles, 1 Blaster (1x S8 Ap2, 18")
Venom [2x Splinter Cannons]

3x Fast Attack
3x Reavers, 1x [Heat lance, Cluster Caltrops: ]

CAD 2

HQ- Court of the Archon [1x Lhamean (2x CCW Poison 2+, ID on 6)]
Venom [2x Splinter Cannons]

2x Troops
5x Kabalite Warriors, 4 Splinter Rifles, 1 Blaster (1x S8 Ap2, 18")
Venom [2x Splinter Cannons]

*1 warrior in one unit upgraded to a Sgt. for warlord trait

3x Fast Attack
2x Reavers, 1x [Heat lance, Cluster Caltrops: D6x S6 HoW Rending)]

1x Scourges
4x (Haywire Blaster, 1x S4 AP4 Haywire)

Heavy Support -
1x Cronos [Spirit Probe]
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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC Rough List Planning   Fri Jul 15 2016, 16:38

Still thinking about dropping blasters on warriors for a 6th venom for the 2nd llhamean.

Otherwise, I've tested the list a fair bit and I like it. I find being aggressive helps, reserving only leads to losing units gradually.

I find I get to fire the heat lances on reavers quite often BTW.
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