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 New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.

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spect_spidey
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PostSubject: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 00:38

I am trying to create my first Dark Eldar list. Please let me know what you think and any suggestions on changes or what to do with the last 99 points I have. Here is the list:

Realspace Raiders Detachment

HQ
Lhamean w/Venom Splinter Cannon

Troops
5x Kabalite Warrior w/Venom Splinter Cannon
5x Kabalite Warrior w/Venom Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack
2X Reavers w/Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion
2X Reavers w/Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion
5X Scrouges w/2 Haywire Blasters
5X Scrouges w/2 Haywire Blasters

Heavy Support
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances, Night Shields
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances, Night Shields
Talos w/Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster

Dark Artisan
Cronos w/Spirit Probe
Haemonculus w/Webway Portal
Talos w/Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster

The idea is to have the 3 Venoms stay near max range eliminating infantry targets. The reavers move up the field making use of cover looking for infantry or light vehicles to assault. The Ravagers will shoot at the heavy armor. The Talos will protect my deployment zone. On Turn 2, the Dark Artisan will deepstrike in on any possible vehicle that is down on hull points while my Scourge look to deepstrike in on any other possible vehicle targets. I have never actually ran a Dark Eldar army before. My local games/tournaments are mainly 1000 to 1500 pt games using a mix of game types. The armies vary from all types of armies, but mostly consists of space marines, eldar, necrons, and Chaos Daemons. Please help me get a list together before I start making purchases.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 08:09

I'd drop the second unit of scourges and just give the other squad 4 haywire blasters. Since most vehicles/tanks have 2-3 hullpoints, 4 haywire blasters will average them wrecking 1 basic tank per turn. 2 isn't that effective.

Next, since you now only have 3 fast attack slots used, change to a normal Combined Arms detachment instead of realspace raiders, so that you get objective secured on your warriors and their transports.

Finally, I'd drop the webway portal from the Haemonculus and give both of your Talos ichor injectors(so that it's hurting things like wraithknights on a 2+, that's a big deal for 10 points.) Since deep striking them can't happen before turn 2, and you can't charge until turn 3 at the earliest if you deep strike, you're taking away 2 full turns of potential from the dark artisan, and leaving yourself open to bad luck on a single reserves roll. If you start them on the table, by turn 3 they could move/run across the table anyhow, and will potentially get other targets of opportunity in turns 1 and 2.

That leaves you with 194 points, which is enough for another 2 obsec units of warriors, each with a venom without the extra cannon. I would personally drop an arena champions for the extra venom cannons on both venoms, but it's not a crucial decision either way. Both have their upside.

Good luck! Wink

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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 08:20

Yep, ObSec is a MUST! I have lost games due to the fact, i didn´t have ObSec and the opponent did. Plus, the benefit from the Realspace jadajada is just bull....
Weaponry looks good, if you are facing loads of vehicles(?), but you could shave of some points also, using the both Talos with Splinter Cannon = great AA if facing Nids or Daemons...
WWP isn´t that important on this list, cos it´s FAST already, so you don´t need that backfield drop for the Dark Artisan. I would keep the extra Talos close by, to get that 4+ FNP on him too and if you (and you really should) make the Haemie your Warlord, then the Talos and Cronos would re-roll 1´s when rollin for FNP...

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 09:13

I would definitely give the dark Artisan Talos a heat Lance. So you can get into the rear Armour of an annoying vehicle when you deep Strike with the WWP to get rid of it. That way it is effective the turn it comes into play.

Other than that I might copy huge parts of the list against Crimson Fists soon.

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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 13:21

@CptMetal wrote:
I would definitely give the dark Artisan Talos a heat Lance. So you can get into the rear Armour of an annoying vehicle when you deep Strike with the WWP to get rid of it. That way it is effective the turn it comes into play.

Not a terrible idea!

Dropped Haywire grenades from the Archon to switch that tl Heat Lance on the Dark Artisan Talos. Especially in missions, that have KP´s, this come in play...

- LV
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spect_spidey
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 14:14

Thank you for the advice so far. I went with two squads of Scourges because I hear that they die quickly. I figured the more units (read targets) I have on the table the more likely one unit would survive past their initial attack.

Additional information on the Dark Artisan plan. I was deepstriking them to be an in your face threat. While the initial turn may not result in much damage, my opponent would have to deal with them or they would be able to assault their back field vehicles. I also figured that with FNP and Toughness 7, they would be able to withstand attacks that first turn in until they could begin assaults.

The arena champions were in the list so I could look out sir to keep my caltrops.

Would heat lances be a better choice on the Talos over Haywire? I went with Haywire figuring it gave a better chance to shave hull point rather than the hope of a penetrating hit.

In my area, I tend to see several Wave Serpents, Razorbacks, and Leman Russ vehicles. There is also one player who sometimes brings a Sisters of Battle list. So the more I think about it the quicker I can remove vehicles the better off I am. A few use drop pod tactics and on occasions there will be an Imperial Knight or Wraithknight. Rarely do I encounter jetbike spam anymore. But the Necron Wraith/Spider formation shows up quite frequently.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sat Apr 02 2016, 20:15

Running your dark artisan across the table for 2-3 turns results in them being able to make it almost anywhere the WWP could have got them, while not robbing you of a couple turns of table presence. It shouldn't be forgotten that while running up the middle of the table, your opponent is unlikely to do so as well, OR he will be giving you a charge target on turn 1-2. So you either own any mid-town objectives for 2 turns, or you get early charge targets for your monster party. Win-win.

I don't think a WWP with a single shot from any vehicle killing gun counteracts the benefits you lose by not putting them on the table turn 1. But it's your call.

As for scourges dying fast...they're one of our most surviveable infantry. They come stock with a 4+ armour and 6+ invuln save. If you put them in ruins to fire their first volley, you can bait the enemy to shoot at them, then go to ground for a 3+ cover save(or not, depending on how dangerous the volley is). Unlike jink, you don't have to announce that you're going to ground until you know how many wounds you need to save.

I've won more games off of obsec than any other special rule in the game, so my original advice still stands, but if you REALLY want to stick with your original list as much as possible, this is what I'd do:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First off, unless I'm missing something, your list actually has 129 points free, not 99.

Drop the webway portal from your DA formation.
Drop the lances from both ravagers, giving them dissies instead(9 S5 AP2 shots each)
Give both units of scourges 4 haywire blasters.
Add another unit of scourges with 4 haywire blasters.
Give both Talos an ichor injector.
Give your Haemonculus a scissorhand.

That makes your list look like this:

Realspace Raiders Detachment

HQ
Lhamean w/Venom Splinter Cannon

Troops
5x Kabalite Warrior w/Venom Splinter Cannon
5x Kabalite Warrior w/Venom Splinter Cannon

Fast Attack
2X Reavers w/Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion
2X Reavers w/Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion
5X Scourges w/4 Haywire Blasters
5X Scourges w/4 Haywire Blasters
5X Scourges w/4 Haywire Blasters

Heavy Support
Ravager w/3 Dissie cannons, Night Shields
Ravager w/3 Dissie cannons, Night Shields
Talos w/Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster & ichor injector

Dark Artisan
Cronos w/Spirit Probe
Haemonculus w/scissorhand
Talos w/Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster & ichor injector
Total: 1496

Then you use all the haywire in your list to focus down transports starting on turn 1, then use all the 36" splinter fire and S5 AP2 dissie shots to kill whatever comes out of them. You'd move your DA formation and Talos up the middle of the table to capture mid-town objectives and discourage your opponent from encoaching on your weaker units.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think, except in a few rare circumstances or with allies, deep strike is a trap for DE, even though we have so much access to it. Reasons why in the spoiler.
Why Deep Strike is a Trap:
 

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spect_spidey
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sun Apr 03 2016, 12:52

I do like this suggested list. It seems like it could do some damage fast. I assume everything is deployed turn one? Only issue is where will I get 12 Haywire Blasters since there is only one in the Scourge box. LOL

Anyone ever use FW Reapers? Seems like having the chance to do d3 hull points per shot would be nice.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: New Help Bring the Pain @ 1500 pts.   Sun Apr 03 2016, 15:37

They CAN be nice, but the opposite is true too: If you miss a single shot, you're losing out on the potential of d3 hull points of damage instead of only missing 1 shot. Some people like them, but if you do, I think they're probably better for the extra rules they have in addition to the d3 thing. Kill-shock has an effect on infantry...can't remember what it is off the top of my head. I don't use them, but a friend of mine does.

Yeah, everything deploys turn 1 and you try to get nightfighting. Also, since you have ZERO obsec in your list, you almost always want first turn, so it makes that decision simple.(I generally always prefer to go second, but also always have obsec) Your goal is to crack every transport possible on turn 1 so that your fast list can molest his footsloggers for the rest of the game while your own footsloggers catch up and finish them off.

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