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 Dark Eldar Tactics Needed

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Akaiyou
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Thu Mar 31 2016, 17:21

Hello there,

I'm new to Dark Eldar.
I've been scouring the internet for any and all tactics, advice etc. I found the videos by Skared here watched them all, as well as done other research, I mostly rely on 1d4chan tactics on it's wiki page (those pages are great and I would recommend them to anyone specially those who can further improve the advice and tips on them)

My starting Dark Eldar force is about 5,000 pts (yes I know it's not usual for a new player but Ive been collecting 40k for several years now and Bartertown is awesome for 40k deals)

I have not played a single game yet. I hope you guys can help guide me on how to run a proper Dark Eldar force.

My starting inventory is as follows:

HQ

1x Converted Archon w/Blaster
- made this guy after reading some tactics and everyone seems to always use Archons. Gave him a blaster because I hear Trueborn are solid and he should join them.
- I cut the barrel of a dark lance off and called what remained a blaster (to me as a new DE player it sort of looks like the regular blaster but larger with the bulb-like tip

1x Succubus w/Agoniser + Archaite Glaive
- prior to converting that archon, this was my go to HQ choice. I kind of like the model.
- it's a finecast model and it seems to be equipped with those weapons, but I really only want the Archaite Glaive as it seems to be the better option. What say you?

3x Haemonculus
- Another finecast model. They all seem to have a liquifer gun. I've been trying to learn to identify DE weapons.

TROOPS

36x Kabalite Warriors
- all with splinter rifles

45x Wyches
- they have variant weaponry I have yet to sit down and break some limbs to fiddle with the loadouts but I intend to do so this weekend.
- to my best recollection I have 2 razorflals, 3 hydra gauntlets and 7 shardnet and impaler.

ELITES

10x Incubi
- My favorite DE model. We all have certain models that attract us to an army. The incubi called out to me and whispered promises of great vices if I started a DE army.

15x Trueborn
- 10 blasters, 9 of them converted. 4 of the 9 I used the same method as with the Archon. For the other 5 I cut the tip of the Shredder guns and cut the bulb-like tip of the Blast pistols then glued it together.
- 4 Splinter Cannons

40x Wracks
- bought a bunch of these guys because I wanted to also use Covens.
- They have several diff loadouts, and being finecast its difficult to switch up gear so advice here? I think some have hexrifles and the whip thing that I can't figure out if it's an agonizer or one of the other whip things. Some also seem to have liquifers


Transports


5x Venoms
- splinter cannon

6x Raiders
- Dark Lance

FAST ATTACK


10x Scourges
- They had splintercannons but I ripped off their arms and glued them to the Kabalite Trueborn.
- I intended to equip 8 scourges with converted hayware blasters, any ideas?

4x Razorwing Jetfighter
- tried to keep these cheap. 1 jetfighter with 4 shatterfield missiles and default load out. 3 jetfighters with dark lance/splinter cannon/mono missiles

HEAVY SUPPORT


3x Ravagers
- dark lances ahoy!

1x Talos
- chain flails and I wanted to give this guy a hayware blaster or are there better options for the tail?

1x Voidbomber
- default loadout to keep it cheap


All advice/list suggestions are welcomed.

Also I would really appreciate some ally suggestions, but I want to stay away from any codex released after Dark Eldar 7th. (this means no Eldar allies)

I'm interested in allying Orks, CSM, Astra Militarum etc etc, anything that came prior I have good inventory for some good ol allied shenanigans.
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Thu Mar 31 2016, 21:43

That's a great list of starting units! Before getting into tactics, what are your goals? Do you want to have an Uber competitive list? Do you want a CC focused army? Do you any units you want to use cause you like the models?
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Thu Mar 31 2016, 22:22

I find Incubi make a great counter-assault unit - stick 5 (or 4 and a character) in a Venom and mix that in with your Kabalite Venoms. Based on matchup, they can either intercept deep strikers/assault units, or hunt backfield objective holders.

As a starting list, I'd probably roll with Succubus + Incubi in a Venom, a few Warrior/Venom units, and some Venom-borne Blasterborn. Season with Haywire Scourge (get the twin-linked Talos haywire bits) or Lance Ravagers by taste to provide anti-tank. Don't be afraid to deepstrike Blasterborn.

If you want something to mix it up, I'd add in some Wracks in a Scalpel Squadron formation. You've largely got what looks like a speedy ranged list with some assault elements, so that's what I'd build towards. If you wanted something more assault-heavy you'd have to look into Reavers/Grotesques, since those are our spearhead units.

How do you imagine playing Dark Eldar other than getting some use out of the Incubi? That'd be a good starting point. It's unpopular but I might even recommend that Kabalite Raiding Party formation - lets you run Incubi and spam Blasterborn.

Sadly the units I think you won't get much use out of are the Wyches, Splinterborn, and maybe most of the Wracks and Voidraven. 1d4chan rules but I think the person who wrote the section on Trueborn loved them so much it looks like they overshadow everything else in the book, which isn't really the case. Incubi are good but lacking assault grenades and being T3 makes them a poor spearhead unit to charge head-on with if that's your role for them, and 1d4chan glosses over that a bit.

Oh, and welcome to Commorragh!
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Akaiyou
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 04:20

Thanks for the welcome!

I like to play themes, I basically choose a thing and build an army around it. I don't stick to just one thing I like to give all my toys some play time. Which makes it difficult to answer the question about what i'm aiming for, since I pretty much aim for 'all the above'

I do like to stay competitive even when using units that aren't as competitive. So for example, let's say I told you guys "I want to build a list using all my wyches" so the theme is to run a wych army, so how can I complement or make the most competitively built list that fully uses wyches from what I have on hand.

Usually this means compensating for it by taking other options that are much much stronger in other slots or bringing something that gives strong synergy. Incubi are my favorite model in the range in terms of appeal but by no means do i want or need them in every list I get around to building, some times they simply won't fit the "theme" that i'm going for. In the army list section for example I posted the very first list I came up with for Dark Eldar using a flyer theme which includes the Voidraven Bomber that i've heard much negativity about from pretty much all sources, so I tried to come up with what can i best use to make a strong list that will use all 5 of my flyers.

So you guys can help me out with some ideas of what to toss into the lists when aiming for certain themes.

Themes that i am interested in trying

Ravager
Wyches
Wracks (was considering going Coven to maximize the strength of wracks)
Incubi
Talos (yeah i only have 1, but seems to me like talos arent a top choice in HS slot so may never get used and i wouldn't want to never use it, maybe in Coven list with wracks?)
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 08:15

In regards to the themes you are interested in trying:

In my 1850 PT list, I take 3 ravagers with dark Lance's. You will hear the pros and many cons of this weapon but bottom line, for turn one, ranged antitank, it's the best option we have.

Wyches: forget about them. I have tried them many times and they rarely do anything worth while. I'm sure there are better generals out there that make them work, but to me, not a good unit at all. I will say that I used them in a homebrew game the other day and had a blast. So much fun to see them actually doing something and making an impact in the game

Wracks: I can't comment too much on wracks because I don't use them all that often. The times I have used them they performed mediocre.

Incubi: personally, I like Incubi. 9 times out of 10, Grots, especially from the grotesquery detachment, are THE Dark Eldars close combat unit. The Incubi are a great close combat unit vs a very select group of opponents where as Grots can take on basically anyone.

Talos: get 4 more and take the thwifs laa
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 08:26

Ravagers would depend on what the rest of your army is like - either triple lance or triple disintegrators, and I avoid other upgrades. Not sure you can really theme a list around them unless you minmax CADs - running 4 Warrior/Venom units and 6 Ravagers, for example.

Wyches sadly aren't great this edition, but in an assault-heavy list they have a niche in being able to tie units up - Reavers and Incubi die more quickly in CC, and while Grotesques do better, they'll just get tied up by a cheap walker and then do nothing all game. Wyches can hold up a Dreadnought for a little bit, and if you grab a Hekatrix with Haywires, can even pull a few hull points off of it.

Wracks like the Scalpel Squadron - the Ossefactor is a pretty nice weapon. Acothysts sadly don't work too well - normally it's fine that our CC upgrades are a little more expensive than average because we're almost guaranteed to strike first, but that's lost with the I4 on the Acothyst. Alternatively stick 10 in a Raider from some of the Coven formations and hope for the best.

Incubi always want a Klaivex; 10 points to upgrade to a character with an extra attack and Rampage is a bargain.

Talos are actually a pretty top choice in HS (I prefer them to Ravagers; I'm a bit of a Haywire Scourge purist), but normally they're taken in multiples: either the Corpsethief Claw which is a unit of 5, or the Dark Artisan which ropes in a Haemonculus and Cronos as well. Ichor Injector is awesome (though sometimes Chain Flails are preferable based on meta). If you end up running a Dark Artisan a deep-striking heat lance is funny, but otherwise I'd keep it cheap with no tail weapon. 5 Haywires in a Corpsethief can work, though.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 13:53

Just to make use of your wych models, perhaps you could use them as Count-As Lahmeans. Getting 3A on the charge with 2+ poison wounding is nothing to laugh at.

Of course they will die if you so much as look in their direction, but thats what the DE are all about!
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Akaiyou
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 16:13

Wow thanks for all the tips and advice, this forum is great.

I will add the Talos to more lists, I'm starting to think perhaps I misjudged him considering the ravager much superior in HS.

It really seems that everyone universally hates wyches, and wracks not too far behind that. But i'll still rely on you guys to help me build a decent enough list for them when the time comes. For now I'm sticking to the airforce and ravager themes.

Airforce Theme - All 5 of my flyers must be in. Anything else that will complement them goes

Ravager Theme - All 3 of my ravagers (probably the only list i'll add all 3 into), and anything else that would benefit most from having 3 DL ravagers.

that's to clarify that I won't add a dozen ravagers lol by theme I simply mean this is the type of unit I want to definitely field on this particular list in whatever quantities I currently own.

I do intend to attempt and convert a Lhamean when I get home from work today, I was given some good advice on how to convert a decent looking one so I will try my hand at it. I stay away from proxies and I also don't like waiting to own something that I don't own already. Converting is the way to go when possible so by all means toss me conversion ideas.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 18:07

I just want to say there is no need to build around the void raven in that list lol. 5 flyers is 5 flyers.

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 18:21

Wracks would have a place in the flyer-heavy list! Grab a Scalpel Squadron so you can null deploy, reserve everything, and take second turn. T1 your opponent does nothing and then your Wrack Venoms come in (zoom them behind terrain), T2 your opponent probably does nothing as well and then all your flyers start coming in and all your ground craft deepstrike in.

The reserve-heavy list is a ton of fun to play.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 18:48

If you don't get screwed on reserve rolls. Perhaps an aegis with comms. Set your Wracks behind it.

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Akaiyou
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 20:13

That's a solid idea I think using the scalpel squadron, but what if my opponent wants me to go first?? remember player that deploys first chooses first or second. So I have no guarantee of going second.

Some things I would be worried about are that in going second my opponent can hit me with barrage weapons, as well as getting their reserves first, which could possibly ruin my day.

Also where do I take the points off to field the squadron?

I think using raiders of realspace detachment gives me the best chance with the airforce in that it gives me a better chance at getting the warlord trait that allows re-rolls of reserves, removing the need for a comms relay.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Tactics Needed   Fri Apr 01 2016, 20:24

It's still only a 1/3 chance. A couple units of mandrakes behind the aegis ought to be pretty resilient. Though if you see a lot of drop pod flamers I'd say use wracks instead.

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