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 Bringing Back the Beastpack

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 12:25

So I was unable to find a recent thread on this topic, so I have created this one.

I found a box of Dark Elf Cold Ones at my LFGS, and couldent resist buying them. Long story short, I now have a beastpack that accompanies me on all my raids of the slave-races.

So my question to my fellow archons is this: Is there any way to make these guys at least semi-competitive?

At this point all I do is max out the khmare (10) and put a beastmaster in there for the ld. Last game I had to bring the squad down to 6 khmare, and my necron opponent chose to ignore them for the majority of the game. When they finally hit a squad, he was very surprised by the amount of attacks they got, and quickly wiped out the scarabs even with their RP.

So after combing through the DE and E codexs (codexi?) all I could come up with for H&R is the phoenix lord baharroth. He also travels at the same speed as our guys, and doesnt mind running in the shooting phase.

Is there any other ICs who I could add to the squad for some benefits? Maybe some cheap shrouding for cover saves?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 12:30

If you have access to IA - Doom of Mymeara, then Irillyth, the Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord is a decent addition. Fleet, Fearless, Hit & Run decent shooting and melee etc.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 12:46

Ideally without resorting to FW or IA.

Although fearless along with H&R would be nice...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 12:51

Baharroth probably your best bet then. Maybe a windrider autarch with banshee mask and shard of anaris?

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Skari
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 12:56

There are a few things you can do, a jet seer can help as well.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 13:43

With the beastpack, it is hard to balance power/survivability/point efficiency. I agree that ignoring overwatch would be great, but not at the cost of a 140pt T3 "beatstick".

The jet seer would be great if he had access to the warlock runes and the standard "shrouded" power. To my knowledge he only has the farseer runes though. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As for the pack itself, I guess the optimal configuration would be 4 fiends (for the T5 majority), 3 swarms (for the wounds and rending) and 3 khmare (for the 5++, and only 3 so that with an IC the unit is still majority T5).

This puts us at 210 pts without the IC. With an IC we are almost at 400. Can this compete with the DA formation?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 13:46

I wouldn't bother with Razorwing Swarms. They took a HUGE swipe from the nerfbat in the current codex and I now wouldn't even bother with them.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 15:17

I realize that the swarms used to be amazing, but I think they still have a place in the pack.

Without them the pack becomes 5 fiends and 4 khymera (to keep majority T5). We loose out on 12 rending attacks and 5W from the squad, all for a savings of 20 pts (and an extra few regular attacks).

Why dont you like the swarms?
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 15:35

@fisheyes wrote:
Why dont you like the swarms?

They're T3 with (effectively) no save. A single scatter laser will take them all out in one turn. Plus they're massively overpriced. I'd rather take more dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 16:45

Hmm, I just assumed that having a pile of rending attacks would make up for the point cost.

As for S6 IDing them, I imagine that between the dogs and fiend we should be able to shield them so that a few will see combat. But my main opponent is necrons (who is majority S4 or 5 weapons), and I have never faced scatbikes.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 16:56

The Rending attacks are WS2, so they're hitting on 5+ generally, and only S3 so they're often wounding on 5+ too so they're not nearly as effective as you, or certainly I, would want.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 17:13

Doesn't it have to be double WS +1 to hit on 5's? Ws5 isn't what I would call average unless you play daemons.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 21:24

@The Red King wrote:
Doesn't it have to be double WS +1 to hit on 5's? Ws5 isn't what I would call average unless you play daemons.

Oops, yeah. My bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 22:01

It was more a clarification than correction. Dang WS chart so wonky

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Wed Mar 30 2016, 22:38

I use a beast pack with some success.
I take 5 clawed fiends and I put a Haemonculi with Sump from my Grotesquery formation in there to give them fearless. Since I have to take him he is essentially a tax so I was searching for a good place for him in my list, hence the beast pack.

The squad costs only 150 points + the Haemi who I do not count since as said above he is a tax anyway. So its cheap enough to just throw it forward along my other CC units and pressure my opponent to make some tough choices. They are fast enough to always find cover and hit with a lot of attacks so cannot be ignored. I really like this unit.

If you want some psychic support with them, then maybe try the spiritseer? He does have access to the small runes if I'm not mistaken so you would always have at least shrouded.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 01:11

The issue is that neither of those ICs can keep up with the pack. If you can't make use of the packs speed, then there isn't really much point
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 02:07

A bike autarch with the shard of anaris? I often find myself bringing anew autarch for the reserves manipulation anyway and you can put him on a bike.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 02:39

@fisheyes wrote:
Hmm, I just assumed that having a pile of rending attacks would make up for the point cost.

Having rending on only some of the models in a unit also divides the unit's purpose as well.

S4 attacks on 5++ bodies, and S3 rending attacks (with low WS/I) on T3, 6+ bodies will quite often have quite different optimum targets.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 02:59

Bike farseer can take the shard too

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 08:46

@fisheyes wrote:
The issue is that neither of those ICs can keep up with the pack. If you can't make use of the packs speed, then there isn't really much point

Well I do not have a problem with keeping up with the squad. The beasts have big bases which means that I have to put only one beast behind the rest to have 2" coherency to the character. It's really not a problem, and it happens only in movement phase. All the other movements (running, charging) are made with the same speed.

I do not recommend joining a bike character to the squad. The unit will loose their most important rule - fleet.
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 08:56

@mika wrote:
I do not recommend joining a bike character to the squad. The unit will loose their most important rule - fleet.

Good call. I'd forgotten that GW specifically removed Fleet from the jetbike versions of the Eldar characters in the latest codex. I'd suggest an Autarch with Swooping Hawk Wings, Banshee Mask and Shard of Anaris plus whatever weaponry takes your fancy.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 13:25

Hmm, I had not thought about using foot ICs for the squad. I guess it would be similar to the necron tactic of putting the DLord in the Wraith unit. Its possible, but you end up with a konga line by Turn 2. Although this would make hiding the swarms much harder (and making them even less useful to the unit).

I still think the two best rules to add to the squad would be Shrouded and H&R. Opinions?
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 14:19

Maybe a Shadowseer? Gives you guaranteed H&R and options for Veil of Tears and Dance of Shadows (=Stealth & Shrouded) from Phantasmancy or Shrouded and Invisibility from Telepathy (plus Mask of Secrets and Psychic Shriek).

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Thu Mar 31 2016, 15:01

I see your point. If you take different beast in one squad then you will want to have them positioned in a certain way, on the other hand I got only 5 beasts in my squad and I do not have any problems with dragging a foot character with them, so with a bigger squad, even if there are mixed models, it should be even easier.
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing Back the Beastpack   Fri Apr 01 2016, 14:00

What is the cheapest way of getting a shadowseer into the pack? My understanding was that I would need about 600 pts of (imho) ugly harlequin units before I can take him as an IC.
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