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Draco
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PostSubject: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 18:07

Hello fellow Dark Eldar Archons!

I have a game coming up tonight where I will be well out numbered. 350pts to 1300pts. My thought was go for a "death star" strategy and just use one unit of 12 Reavers, champ, agoniser, caltrops and lances.

Any better ideas?
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 20:27

What about a Dark Artisan Formation.  Cronos w\ Spirit Probe and give the Haemuncli the Nightmare doll.

350 Exactly.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 20:36

Uhh, 350 points of Eldar vs 1300 points of....well...anything? Who'd come up with such a scenario? Did someone make some claim about DE being super awesome and able to take on w/e 3 to 1  or something? This sounds like a nightmare for DE. It'd be like guardsmen trying to take on 1300 points with 350 points, except guardsmen would have more models.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know what your missions will be, but in my opinion, there would only be 2 ways to go with it to try to survive. 1 is the tank/deathstar method, of which we only really have 1 option at 350 points: The Dark Artisan formation.

Haemonculus w/ The Vexator Mask & Stinger Pistol 85
Talos w/ Ichor Injector & Haywire Blaster 140 pts
Cronos w/spirit probe 125
Total: 350

That makes a unit that is T7 with a 3+ armour save and a 4+ rerollable(on 1's) feel no pain. They're also AP2 in CC(except the haemy) and the talos can wound anything with a toughness value on a 2+, instant death on a 6.

The unit is tough, but slow, and it's not unkillable. If there is a lot of cover, you should be able to make it VERY difficult to kill you though. Killing this unit is similar in difficulty to killing a wraithknight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, I DID say there were two ways to try to survive. The second one is to simply take lots of models, in the only model that we have that can be taken thusly: Kabalite Warriors.

Does your 350 points have to follow the normal rules for detachments, or can you take whatever units you want that fit within 350 points? Do you have to pay an HQ tax?

If you do, I'd probably take a Lhamaean in this second strategy. Then do this:

Lhamaean 10
20 Kabalite Warriors w/2 Dark Lances 200
10 Kabalite Warriors w/Dark Lance 100
3 Mandrakes 36
Total: 346

Then you just keep your models in cover as best as possible while using your limited number of dark lances to try to keep his armour in check. Infiltrate or outflank the mandrakes to try to snatch an objective.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If none of these sound particularly deadly or like they have a good chance of winning against your opponent, it's because you're playing against 4 to 1 odds. Your only shot at winning is to use cover and hope your opponent doesn't have a bunch of ignores cover weapons. The reason for this is simple: Cover is the 1 advantage you don't have to pay for when you buy your models. So if you buy a bunch of 6+ save models and put them in ruins, you're only paying the price of a 6+ model, but you're getting a 4+ save. Same if you DO pay for a 3+ armour save, but your opponent pays for a bunch of AP2 weapons. If you use cover, now all his AP2 weapons only lower your save by 1 instead of completely negating it, which makes the points HE spent a waste.

I wouldn't use reavers because they only have a 5+ armour save at 16 points each. In the event he DOES have something that ignores their 3+ cover save on jinks, they die immediately. They're also not THAT scary offensively, especially after they've jinked and can only shoot snapshots. I love reavers. But they're better in concert with others, rather than a deathstar.

Good luck. Sounds like a slaughter.

EDIT: Magoo ninja'd me while I was writing up your response. lol

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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 21:15

The Dark Artisan formation would have been my #1 choice, but I do not own a Cronos/Talos sadly.

This is part of an on going tournament.
I was attacked with a small contingent of Dark Eldar close enough to defend my zone, so that's why it will be a slaughter.

The rules that matter here are 350pts and below can be unbound, so I can bring whatever I want without restriction to a force org.

I'm afraid that Kabalites might not be strong/fast enough to survive an entire game. My hopes with the reavers is to build up PFP turns, deny my opponent targets for objectives and pull out a last turn turbo boost move to get a draw.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 21:42

What is the mission? Maelstrom of War? If that's the case I would go full reaver. Hide as much as possible and just zoom around and grab objectives.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 21:47

@CptMetal wrote:
What is the mission? Maelstrom of War? If that's the case I would go full reaver. Hide as much as possible and just zoom around and grab objectives.

He gets to pick. Shocked But I hope it's Malestrom.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 21:55

You're so f****

What about 5 Reaver squats with 3 men and cluster caltrops. One squad with arena Champion and agoniser.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Mon 28 Mar 2016 - 22:34

Can you retreat? Is there any benefit to doing so? Are there any special rules involved in the campaign that influence defense or anything? All these things are important to any advice we could give.

As far as warriors not being tough enough to survive, Like I said, cover is your friend. Look at it this way: I can have 10 warriors for every 5 reavers you have. If my warriors go to ground in cover, they've got the same save as if your reavers jink, but they have double the wounds. The warriors also have double the splinter shots as the reavers, and access to 36" dark lances to compensate for their lower mobility.

They're more surviveable than reavers if you're playing bound. Unbound, go MSU reavers with min-squad kabalite objective campers in your own deployment zone. You're not going to outkill him. But you might be able to outmaneuver him.

List:
5 units of 3 Reavers
2 units of 5 Kabalite Warriors
3 units of 1 Khymera model

LIGHTBULB:
If you REALLY wanted to WIN, and you have the models, run 35 individual units of Beastmaster Units containing a single Khymera, and hope your opponent doesn't go obsec. That'd pee in someone's cheerios. This is super-dirty, and won't make you any friends, but you very well MAY win 350 unbound vs 1300 bound.

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Tue 29 Mar 2016 - 9:46

Ha. That's a fun idea! I'd like to some day see THAT!

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Tue 29 Mar 2016 - 16:28

How about 16 1-man squad of sslyth? They are tough, have good amount of fire and will be hard to focus-kill.

Put them in cover, scattered close enough to support each other.
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Rhameil
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Tue 29 Mar 2016 - 17:26

Sslyth sound like a good idea. What about a few Sslyth in cover and a few min squads of CC Reavers?

Have the Sslyth scattered accross the back field and the Reavers zooming around running distraction and try to keep your opponent unfocused and burn turns.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Tue 29 Mar 2016 - 18:16

@Rhameil wrote:
Sslyth sound like a good idea. What about a few Sslyth in cover and a few min squads of CC Reavers?

The problem with them is that they're 25 points each and only move 6 inches. The problem with reavers is you have to take them in squads of 3, so enemies aren't wasting as much shooting as they are when they shoot 10 warriors into a single model. My idea was to overload the board with single, 10 point models that are beasts moving 12 inches each with invuln saves, ignoring terrain, autopassing dangerous terrain tests, S4/T4, and 3 attacks base(4 on the charge).

They're basically better versions of assault space marines for 10 points each with a 5+ invuln instead of a 3+ armour. Khymera's ONLY weakness is their leadership, which doesn't matter if they're all in units of 1. The idea is to have your opponent waste their shooting and charges against single models, while all your other models run around with impunity.

Think of it this way. If DE, who has more units than most, put a 1300 list together, they'd have roughly, on average, 10-14 units. With space marines, or grey knights or something, that number might be as low as 5-6. With 35 individual units of khymera running around scooping up objectives and hiding in cover, they don't have enough shots to hit all the units you have. And inevitably, SOME of your units are going to just pass all their saves. It's the ultimate MSU strategy. Kill them with spam. It's your absolute best hope.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know it seems inglorious to win a game without really trying to kill anything, but let me ask you this:

What carries more glory? Killing half your opponent's troops and losing the game anyhow, or not killing a single thing, but winning the game 350 points vs 1300 points?

Personally, I know what I'd choose. I enjoy coming up with strategies that make leagues/tournaments change their rules so that it doesn't happen again. Haha. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 0:02

I don't have my coven book nearby, but... what are the cheapest coven formation/detachment possible (for the freakish spectacle rule)? Can he morale debuff him enough with just 350pts? Daemons are quite vulnerable to morale.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 0:57

I don't think the leadership debuff would do anything without being able to hurt your opponent's units. Did I miss him saying he was playing against daemons somewhere?

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 1:43

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I don't think the leadership debuff would do anything without being able to hurt your opponent's units. Did I miss him saying he was playing against daemons somewhere?

Oups. I tough it was daemons, but you're right. It's not specified. It would be a good info to have, tought.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 1:50

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Rhameil wrote:
Sslyth sound like a good idea. What about a few Sslyth in cover and a few min squads of CC Reavers?

The problem with them is that they're 25 points each and only move 6 inches.

I agree with you here, but Sslyth are still probably more survivable than the Kabalites you first advocated for. You can buy 3 Kabalites for each single Sslyth, but he pumps out the same firepower (3 shots) at only a slightly shorter similar range. He has no Dark Lance access, but is infinitely more annoying to kill with his automatic 5+ FNP, T5 and 2 wounds a piece. They also can always go to ground, unlike Kabalites who lose that ability when they get Fearless. Camp cover with several Sslyth and I think they'll outlast Kabalites point for point.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Khymera's ONLY weakness is their leadership, which doesn't matter if they're all in units of 1. The idea is to have your opponent waste their shooting and charges against single models, while all your other models run around with impunity.

Sslyth also benefit from all of this, but are much harder to kill.

You're right, Khymera are probably the very best option for this particular scenario. Their main issue being that I can't think of anyone being pleased to pay for, and assemble, 35 of them, especially considering you'll likely never use so many of them outside of this particular list lol.

I think a mix of 1 man units of Sslyth and Khymera would be alright. You can fit in exactly 10 of each for 350 pts, but again, such a list would bankrupt anyone financially or creatively, with so much finecast or intense conversions required.

As a reasonable alternative, I'd opt for 8-10 Khymera and 4-5 Sslyth, each in their own 1 man unit. These models can find use in most Dark Eldar lists so you're not wasting too much. This leaves enough points to throw in some Reavers if you want additional mobility, or mandrakes if you want some infiltrator 2+ cover campers.

What do you reckon of that sort of list, @BetrayTheWorld?

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 6:15

I have 30 Khymera. Very Happy

They're mathematically our 2nd best CC unit in the book, point for point, so I can always find ways to use them if I want.

But I mean, you've gotta do what you've gotta do. Can't use models you don't have, and I wouldn't suggest buying 35 khymera from GW. Maybe buy 1-6, then convert 30 of them from vampire counts dire wolves and tyranids scything talons. That's what I did. But if you can't, Hydranixx advice is good.

If you have a bunch of sslyth but no khymera, they're probably your second best bet. A mix wouldn't be bad. The primary thing is to maximize the number of units you have based on your points and available models.


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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 6:25

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I have 30 Khymera. Very Happy

30 dogs!

I imagine with those numbers you could go for the multiple RSR detachments just to spam them even in regular points games.

As soon as I read you have 30, I just envisioned a list with 3 or 4, or even 5 RSR detachments with a total of 18-30 separate Khymera in Fast Attack slots for only 180-300 points, backed up by the usually mix of Kabalites & Courts in transports and some Ravagers.

Have you ever made lists like that lol?

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 16:28

I will add my $0.02 by saying the multiple units of khymare are the way to go. Maybe add in one or two double SC venoms for some actual killing potential
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 20:48

@hydranixx wrote:

Have you ever made lists like that lol?

I have, sort of. I've run multiple units of individual khymera before, in support of a normal force. Though when I did it, I had 11 units with individual models and 1 max-sized unit that I put a sanctic psyker in(for the +1invuln and +2S). Having 12 individual units of khymera from 2 RSR formations, while still having 1620 points of OTHER stuff puts your opponent in quite the predicament in non-killpoint games.

Either they waste fire killing the single dogs, or they let the dogs run amok all over the table, capturing/contesting objectives and soaking overwatch. If your opponent ignores them, they can also gang up to pack a punch when you charge them into anything with MEQ or lower armour saves.

Oh, and S6 khymera with 4+ invulns are one of the nastiest melee units in 40k for their points.   S6/T4, moving 12 inches with 4 attacks on the charge for 10 points each. Twisted Evil

Anyhow, I'm off to Adepticon, so I'll see you guys when I get back! Wish me luck!

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Wed 30 Mar 2016 - 20:54

You better take some pictures and get some battle reports!

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Thu 31 Mar 2016 - 1:38

Our Supreme Overlord is intrigued by your challenge. Don't dare come back without a proper victory and humiliation of your opponent. Don't forget to take some holorecords to share.
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Thu 31 Mar 2016 - 14:47

I too am curious how an opponent will feel about this tactic. They will either laugh or cry XD
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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Thu 31 Mar 2016 - 22:32

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@hydranixx wrote:

Have you ever made lists like that lol?

I have, sort of. I've run multiple units of individual khymera before, in support of a normal force. Though when I did it, I had 11 units with individual models and 1 max-sized unit that I put a sanctic psyker in(for the +1invuln and +2S). Having 12 individual units of khymera from 2 RSR formations, while still having 1620 points of OTHER stuff puts your opponent in quite the predicament in non-killpoint games.

Now that list sounds nothing short of hilarious, and at the same time actually quite brutal. I'd be pretty keen to try it myself. Definitely gonna have to do some research into some khymera conversions now!

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Anyhow, I'm off to Adepticon, so I'll see you guys when I get back! Wish me luck!

Time to crack some skulls Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Meanest 350pt Pure Dark Eldar list   Fri 1 Apr 2016 - 18:30

So, the official record hasn't come out yet, but I apparently ranked about 25th in the Adepticon 40k Championship per the organizer. The top 16 went to the finals. I had 91 battle points. 16th place had 96, so I was 5 battle points away from the finals.

I didn't get any pictures because, well, it's a long story, but I will put together a basic batrep of my experience at adepticon later and link it here if the OP gives me permission to do so, since it came up. It was fun either way.

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