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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 07:43

So I have a 1250 fun tornament with the following restrictions

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7NqIiaN5EpAQUpBYVpISWJJelE/view?usp=sharing

I've got an idea for a list using Grotesuire since I can fit a unit of three and a unit of four in the allied limitation. Raiders for the units will most likely come from the fast slot of the CAD. I can only have 2 of each unit so 2 warriors squads in venoms are more or less auto included.

Reavers squads will go in, scourges will go in for anti tank, ravages with diss cannons may be added for extra anti infantry.

I'll post a list of what I'm planning later on when I have time, but any advice on units to take would be appreciated
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 08:33

Looks like a really cool event. I especially like the part where they give hatred and preferred enemy (unpainted models) haha.

The army list constraints they impose actually play into the Dark Eldar's strengths - take away super heavies and gargantuan monstrous creatures and we're in a pretty good spot.

The Grotesquerie you mention should be rock solid because they won't have to deal with anything like Wraithknights etc. The problem is you're sacrificing Fast Attacks slots for their Raiders in the CAD which are so important, especially when you mention you want both Reavers and Scourges...

Perhaps something along the lines of:

Dark Eldar CAD
2 Units of 5 Kabalites.
2 Venoms with dual Splinter Cannons,
2 Raiders.
1 Unit of 5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters
1 Succubus with Archite Glaive and Haywire Grenades.
2 Ravagers.
6 Reavers with 2 CCs.

Grotesquerie
3 Grotesques with Aberration.
3 Grotesques with Aberration.
1 Haemy with Scizzorhand.

If my maths is on point (don't have codex with me) this leaves ~50pts left over - perhaps another Reaver or an Arena Champion.

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 10:46

Yeah so I can't use grotquesuire...
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 11:11

What about putting Blaster in the warrior squads?

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 11:25

@Archon Vitcus wrote:
Yeah so I can't use grotquesuire...

Oh no... so there's a rule against formations, and only detachments are allowed?

In which case, perhaps consider CWE allies, or just buy a 4 strong squad of regular Grotesques to carry with your HQ.

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 12:07

At the minute I'm thinking

Heami with Wwp
8grots
5blaster born venom
5blaster born venom

Warrior squad, splinter cannon raider with racks
Warrior squad as above

Razorwing with Dark lance cause I may need large blasts and anti air

Can't even use real space raiders as its a case of 'if we allow this then we need to allow...' The comp apparently helps me cause opitimal lists smash dark elder, though I don't think that they realise it also hinders me as well
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Tue Mar 15 2016, 22:32

The Grot bomb is a very scary unit, but my worry is there's a lot that can go wrong if you rely on so many points in reserve when they can't even charge the turn they show up. I think 8 in a WWP is just too expensive, lacks mobility and takes too long to impact the game.

They'd also be countered extremely hard by anything with loads of force weaponry (grey knights), strength 10 attacks (vindicators, dreadnoughts, Wulfen + THs) or a fast moving army.

But if you end up against gunline, I think you'd be a in good spot. That unit will soak up the entire 1250 points of Tau/IG/SM fire worth of shooting and probably still be a threat afterwards.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Wed Mar 16 2016, 04:59

Only a CAD and allied detachment up to 325 points...no named characters, no duplicate HQs, no more than 2 of the same unit, no forgeworld, no GMCs, no superheavies, no more than 1 MC per unit, no more than 2 MCs in general(F U DAEMONS!/NIDS!), no formations...

You should have called this the 1250 "No Fun" tournament. Razz

I'm not a fan of such heavy-handed house rules. I could go into why, but I'm long-winded enough as is. I agree with Hydranix: That's too many points tied up in the Grot unit to have them not charging till turn 3 in the best of cases. This is what I would do if I wanted to stick pretty close to your idea:

HQ
Succubus w/Archite Glaive
ELITE
4 grots Aberation w/agonizer in a raider w/night shields
5 blaster born  in a dual cannon venom
5 blaster born  in a dual cannon venom
TROOPS
10 Warrior squad, dissie cannon raider with racks and night shields
5 Warrior squad, dual splinter cannon venom
FA
Razorwing with Dark lance
3 Reaver Jetbikes Arena Champion w/Cluster Caltrops
3 Reaver Jetbikes w/Cluster Caltrops
TOTAL: 1246

You lose half the size of your grot squad to put them in a raider, but it allows them to flat out 30 inches across the table turn 1 so that they're ready to charge turn 2. It also allows you a significant number of points to swap out the haemy for the far superior melee combatant in the succubus(since you don't get the haemy benefit from covens anyhow), add an agonizer aberration to your grots, and add 2 units of cluster caltrop reavers to your army.

The agonizer aberration is good because it makes ALL of his 6+d3 attacks on the charge AP3, and he gets to reroll failed wounds against T4 or lower because of the poison rule and his S5.

The reavers will help you against things like invisibility and high toughness MCs with their auto-hitting, rending hammer of wrath hits. The built-in 3+ jink saves will also help you replace the resilience you lost by lowering the number of grots in your army.

The points also pay for night shields on your 2 raiders, so that they get a 3+ jink save as well. You basically always want to jink the warrior gunboat, and jink with the grot boat until they disembark.

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Wed Mar 16 2016, 09:03

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

HQ
Succubus w/Archite Glaive
ELITE
4 grots Aberation w/agonizer in a raider w/night shields
5 blaster born  in a dual cannon venom
5 blaster born  in a dual cannon venom
TROOPS
10 Warrior squad, dissie cannon raider with racks and night shields
5 Warrior squad, dual splinter cannon venom
FA
Razorwing with Dark lance
3 Reaver Jetbikes Arena Champion w/Cluster Caltrops
3 Reaver Jetbikes w/Cluster Caltrops
TOTAL: 1246

Yeah, this is the sort of list I could get behind. There's some pretty good combat synergy between Grots and Reavers.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

The agonizer aberration is good because it makes ALL of his 6+d3 attacks on the charge AP3, and he gets to reroll failed wounds against T4 or lower because of the poison rule and his S5.

You actually found a slot where the agoniser doesn't suck! Do you ever consider Scizzorhand on the Aberration to cope with ap2?

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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Wed Mar 16 2016, 09:47

might consider dropping the night shields for the armour of misery on the Succubus as well, gives her a little bit more survivability as well as -2 for fear/break tests etc.
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Wed Mar 16 2016, 10:08

@hydranixx wrote:

You actually found a slot where the agoniser doesn't suck! Do you ever consider Scizzorhand on the Aberration to cope with ap2?

Not normally, since I generally put a succubus with them. I prefer to have the reliable AP3 on the aberration as opposed to a 1 in 6 chance of AP2, and let the succy handle AP2 if necessary. I know the scissorhand let's you reroll failed wounds against T4 and lower too, but because grots wound on 2+ or 3+ against most things, it doesn't really improve their odds of a rend much, because they rarely fail to wound.

@drdoom222222 wrote:
might consider dropping the night shields for the armour of misery on the Succubus as well, gives her a little bit more survivability as well as -2 for fear/break tests etc.

I like the idea of armour of misery on the succubus, but it's not worth losing the night shields for. 1 of them is protecting his 165 point splinter gunboat, and the other is protecting his grots/succubus to get them in melee. The possibility that he doesn't get first turn must be considered. And if that happens, there is a very good possibility he will be sitting there with only a 4+ jink to save him from having to foot slog the rest of the game. It's just not worth the risk. With the night shields, if he doesn't go first, he can always position out of LoS as best as possible to limit the number of attackers, then he has the stealth/3+ jink for backup.

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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 06:52

See I would love to spam venoms and raiders it's what I do best lol thing is I'm only allowed two of each unit. 2venoms and 2 raiders is te Max I'm allowed for transport. I've already so as to the guys who made the rules they are kinda screwing Dark elder over their response was 'we're doing it so dark elder don't get 100%smashed by optimal lists from elder and tau"...I can actually kill wraithknights and riptides pretty easily if I'm allowed certain units to get leadership bomb off lol

As for the list itself, i edited slightly to have two units of grots, a 3man unit and a slightly larger 4man unit both of these will have raiders. Troops will be good old reliable warriors in venoms with a blaster, not ideal I admit but they have yet to fail me in making points back though I would rather give a raider with ethersails for last minute objective grabbing and for malestorm objectives. A Razorwing, 6man reaver and a unit of scrorges will fill out the fast slot and possibly a dl ravager (there's a guard player taking two russes and a Ignore cover wvwryn thingy) hopfully there's not too many ignore cover crap as they also ignore Jink saves...

I usually run a sucubus with armour of misery, she befits most from it with the better save, give her a glaive and some meat shields (grots) and watch her work.

I'll post a newer list somepoint today taking in the advice giving, the two reaver squads might be better than taking a unit of scourges
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 07:46

Right so edited list I have sits at 1241
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 08:04

What is in your edited list?

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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 08:52

frak it didn't post lol hang on
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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 09:47

Lheame 10 (goes with grot unit)
Succubus, AoM, glaive 110 (gies with grots, warlord)

Grots- 4 with abberation sissorhand, raider, night shields ethersails 235
Grots- 4 with abberation agoniser, raider, nightshields, ethersails 250

Warriors blaster, venom, cannon 120
Warriors as above 120

Reavers with caltrops 73
Reavers with caltrops 73

Ravager 3 dark lance 125
Ravager 3 dark lance 125

Not sure why this didn't post in the previous comment. Lheame babysits the sissorhand grot squad, sucubus babysits the second squad, both grot squads flat backed up with the reavers for a little msu antics. Venom squads sit back with ravagers and provide fire support and objective grabbing. Might run the venoms empty with warriors camped up but I think that'll be a bad idea depending.

Problems I'll face? Probably lack of anti air and lack of anti tank, would love to fit a unit of haywire scourges. Will probably give succubus haywire grenades. Both grots have aberrations to take challenges depending on what they hit, one grot will be the overwatch tanker so the rest of the unit can make CC
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 12:38

The Lheamean isn't an independent character, so no babysitting possible.

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 13:37

...i knew that...lol

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PostSubject: Re: 1250 'fun' tornament    Thu Mar 17 2016, 18:19

Your reavers are 10 points overpriced for what you have listed. I'd fix that, drop the lahmaean, drop the aethersails, the armor of misery, and drop the 2 blasters from the warriors. That pays for an archon with an agoniser to go with the second group of grots. That leaves you 19 points. I'd spend 10 putting haywire grenades on both HQs, and maybe spend another 5 on giving your succy the parasite's kiss. The kiss isn't a hute deal, but I don't see a spot where the 5 points would be better. I suppose you could use it to put sails on one of the raiders if you want. The fact is, neither one will likely benefit you much.

Aethersails or OK, but not normally necessary. There is only 24 inches of space between deployment zones. A fast skimmer can move 12" in the movement phase, and 18" flat out, for a total of 30 inches in one turn. That puts you 6" into the enemy deployment zone. Round 2, you have another 12" of movement, plus charge range. You should be able to get wherever you need to go without the sails. The raiders are plenty fast enough.

You want an IC with those grots because they're not fearless and they have leadership 4. If a single grot dies to shooting without an IC in the unit, they're running, and not regrouping. With an IC, they don't even have to test until 2 die, and even then, they're likely passing.


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