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 Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas

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RCZ
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Thu Mar 03 2016, 11:33

Hello fellows,
this weekend i've to face the leader in charge of our house tornament. And guess what? Yeah, it's an eldar player! (For whom has not read my older topics, in our house tournament each player must play a "pure" faction. Not even using a supplement over the basic faction book. However, for Dark kin an exception were made, just because we have units in one book and formation in another).

Returning IT: I've to face an eldar player. One shot 1350 pts battle. No Kill Points.

What i know of my enemy?
1) He will not gonna use any wraith-grargantua or wraith-monstrous creature due the foe of our splinter force.
2) He has a very deep love for Warp Spiders. He also used them against me in the past. It is clear that their weapon could not wound well our troops but i remember clearly what he had done to my venoms.
3) He also deep love his bikes, just because they let him the mobility needed to grap objectives and gain points. I dont know in wich form the bikes will come, but i suscpect scatter laser more than CC ones.


What i want to do?
1) Prepare at least 1 Ravager to take care from distance to the bikes. Make 'em scatter from the hazard to see my dark weapon just ignore their armour save.

2) Have at least a small CC squad to drop some punch in the face of warp spiders. Maybe a raider full of grots+IC or a Scalpel Squadron to rosty some aspect warrior. Or both. Or read down.

3) Maybe drop a single Dark Artisan just in the middle of his formation. However i think that i could simply move his forces away and let my DA wandering alone and slowly through the table.

Why i search for advices?
Because my model arent infinite: i could put on the table two ravagers OR two raider, not both. I also have in total 4 venoms (so, maybe play two of them for scalpel? or better not?). And so on.
Advices on eldar?
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Thu Mar 03 2016, 15:28

At 1350 you do need to consider a few core things.

Firstly, DA is going to eat up a lot of points at that level, and against an army as mobile as Eldar could potentially struggle to really come to grips with him. I would tend to avoid it. The only thing they'd really have going for them is that they would kind of laugh at the Spiders and Bikes, the problem is the basic shuriken weaponry is actually very good at plinking away at tough, armored things, and it's also quite slow, making it hard to do enough damage to count. If KP were an element then I'd advocate them, but with it not mattering I would say don't go that route.

I, personally, find the Scalpel Squadron to be pretty lackluster, others seem to hold the opposite opinion...I think they're silly and wrong, but at the end of the day the Formation really only has two things going for it. First, Venoms are good. Second, it allows you to null deploy. Wracks are dreck, through and through, not Mandrake level dreck, but still dreck. So, if you want Venoms, you can get them other ways - so the only point to the Scalpel Squadron is if you want to null deploy - if you don't, then don't bother with the formation.

I do think Grots are quite good, but do caution that at 1350, again, they can be pricey. I think the optimal Grot build comes in at a minimum of around 300+ points. That said, yes, having a solid assault element will be very beneficial to you, and will give Warp Spiders a good comeuppance (bikes too if you can manage to get in assault range of them). I also do think you're on the right path with your build insomuch as DE really have issues outshooting Craftworlders, and we can't outmanuver them either - that said we do have some better low point assault tools than they do, and that can be a powerful element to bring to bear.

I would definitely bring Venoms, I would advise a Raider with Grots and a Succubus. I would build a CAD so you have Obj. Sec. just in case he doesn't. I would remind you that after bikes jink, you should shoot at something else, because jinked bikes are a lot less scary to your units than almost anything else. Grabbing Warp Spiders in assault is sexy.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Thu Mar 03 2016, 17:51

First: I don't have too much experience fighting Eldar especially warp spiders. I got them the old fashioned way: lots of venoms.

I'd try venoms with Kabalite Warrior and maybe the archangel bomb top kill critical key elements. That way you deliver a critical punch have close combat troops (grotesquerie) and lots of poison.

The spiders and the bike units should be vulnerable to this tactic and if he never experienced that bomb before it's kind of moral breaking too.

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Thu Mar 03 2016, 23:58

I would go with MSU Reavers and Venoms both. Reavers are going to be fairly hard for Spiders to kill - wounding on 4s, and 3+ Jink, and Venoms can take down Scatbikes so long as they're not getting shot at.

Grotesquerie is a solid choice but I'm not 100% confident you'd be able to make the assault with them if your opponent is (rightly) bent in avoiding them. Have you considered Medusae? A pair deepstriking in a Venom and disembarking will probably toast a bike unit and fill that tax of an HQ slot. A dissie Ravager isn't unwelcome either; just be careful since that thing is going to have a huge target painted on it.
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RCZ
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Fri Mar 04 2016, 15:10

Unfortunately, going full ravager (2) means for me drop the idea of a raider full of grots.
I can put on the table 2 ravager (both dissie) and 4 venom (with on board 1 blaster each). For support my anti tank compartment i will get also a RWJ with the dark lances on board.
This is also my usual MSU build, what i feel is that there isn any true hard "centre-taker" CC unit. Maybe i could include a DA formation to get the centre of the table and simply stand still. This united with a very close objective positioning could help me to capitalize the DA (equipped with splinter cannon and chemical flamethrower?).

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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Fri Mar 11 2016, 01:01

This will definately be an uphill battle for you. Leave out the Dark Artisan formation. Warp Spiders plow through this with ease, and you will never get into assault range anyway.
Jetbikes will handle your vehicles easily, and can jump behind a wall after shooting for good line of sight blocking.
I think your best bet is a powerful alpha strike. Deep Strike EVERYTHING. Take out his spiders if you can fire at them in a position where they won't be able to jump away, or else settle for the bikes. As mentioned, Medusae are great for bikes, but loads of poison will do fine as well.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Fri Mar 11 2016, 03:34

Medusae would be lovely for those bikes. Just take 2 so you can statistically kill everything under your templates. 2 with 3 sslyth in a venom are decent. The Medusae do their job while the ssylth provide major tough 5, a little cc threat and some shooting to maybe plink off the remnants of your target if anything survives the flamers.

Plus it's only 135 points. 195 with the venom but no one calls a venom a tax. And puts 8 wounds on the table with 9 splinter shots and 2 ap3 flamers... come to think of it if you thought of a article 135 point model with 8 wounds, 9 shots.. etc. Etc. It would look like a ridiculously good model lol

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Fri Mar 11 2016, 04:53

How did it go?
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RCZ
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PostSubject: Re: Facing pesky eldars, revise my ideas   Fri Mar 11 2016, 07:56

The match was shifted due personal business of both us. I will write down here the results.
However, i dont think that i could deploy medusae(s) and ssyhlt because i dont own the models and now we are doing a tournament without any proxy.
In total (for being more clear) i could put on the table:

2*Raider/Ravager (old model so we count as both Very Happy )
1* RWJ
6* Reavers
4*Venoms
30* Warriors / Trueborn
5* Scourges
2*Talos/cronos
4*Incubi
1*Drahzar
3*Haemy
1* Dracon
10* Wracks
3*Grots

And no more else i think. No
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