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 Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list

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doctorz
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PostSubject: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Tue Mar 01 2016, 04:19

So my legs is running an adepticon primer in a couple of weeks and I as always will be playing dark eldar. In trying to plan a list I ran into the same problem I always seem to, not enough dark light weapons to kill Knights, bane blades rhinos etc. and the I thought about it and at least in my meta no one is running those things. In my meta the competitive lists center around grav centurions/bikes, scat packs, tau suits, and thunder wolves. I think you folks all know what's good at killing that stuff.... So I took all the blasters and dark lances out of my list and replaced them with even more poison and a healthy number of scatter lasers just in case of transports. Here's what I came up with.

138 poison shots and 48 scatter laser shots at 36 inches. It can null deploy with the help of the autarch and scalpel squadron. And the corpsethief claw will draw fire/ act as a charge deterrent. They can also kill vehicles if need be.

Thoughts?


Real Space Raiders detachment


1x Lhamaean with venom

2x kabalites in venoms

4x fast attack venoms

Eldar CAD

Autarch with laser lance, jetbike, banshee mask.

4x 3 windriders with scatter lasers

Formations


Scalpel squadron

Corpsethief Claw
All armed with Icor injectors and splinter cannons


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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Tue Mar 01 2016, 14:24

Grav Centurions, Tau Suits, and Thunderwolves all would fear blaster/lance fire over poison shooting in my opinion. Poison will work excellently against Scatter bikes and space marine bikes (though, presuming they are Dark Angel Space Marine bikes, I would suggest assault works better, and will admit I'm not sure the Claw is best for that - but then I usually get spooked about the Claw, so maybe that's just me).

The obvious hard counters to this list are mech gunline - if your opponent has the range to shoot across the table and an armor value of 13+ he basically can laugh at this list, so the aforementioned super heavies would be an issue (as even a lot of 12+ would be a problem for you) If you are correct in that no one in your meta is running that stuff, in a general sense I would say you're making the right move.

I will again note that darklight weaponry is actually still pretty potent at killing some of the models you're listing (especially a lot of the T4 battlesuits, wherein firing darklight at them is actually more cost effective than splinter spam, same for Centurions with anything worse than 4+ cover, and Wolves without shields)

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doctorz
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Tue Mar 01 2016, 23:49

I would never argue that dark light weapons aren't useful or in most casesnearly mandatory. What I'm trying to do is play my local meta.where I am playing I don't see a lot of Mec lists. I love my dark eldar but I'm realistic as to where they stack up against competitive lists. It's not particularly good. So in order to win a tournament I've decided my best chance is to Play a very one dimensional list and I hope my opponents aren't prepared for that one dimension. Venomsare simply better at killing the things I listed the dark light weapons, 3 lance Ravagers does an average of 2.5 wounds on a unit with a 2+ save, 6 venoms at roughly the same points cost does 4. The difference in those numbers is increased further when you factor in units like thunder wolves having storm Shields, the Ravagers start to lose damage output quickly and the venoms are unaffected.

I'm not arguing that dark eldar should stop taking dark light weapons all together, that would be stupid. I'm just advocating giving it a shot in a situation like mine, where they may not be necessary
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Wed Mar 02 2016, 01:18

doctorz wrote:
3 lance Ravagers does an average of 2.5 wounds on a unit with a 2+ save, 6 venoms at roughly the same points cost does 4.
Just remember that not only would the armour save itself be negated, unlike a venom, but the Dark Lance also negates things like FNP on most infantry models. Instant death against Tau Crisis suits is the best way to deal with them.

That being said, I quite like your approach. It's a similar play style that we might use against flyers, ignoring what we cannot hurt, and focusing on mobility and getting the Claw into combat. Being able to force so many saves on anything with a toughness value could blindside some opponents.

I firmly believe the list could perform excellently against some lists, but would get thoroughly ruined by others. So you'll probably be in a kingmaker sort of position at the least.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Wed Mar 02 2016, 12:35

doctorz wrote:
3 lance Ravagers does an average of 2.5 wounds on a unit with a 2+ save, 6 venoms at roughly the same points cost does 4.
This math presumes cover saves of 4+ Which I did indicate was the break point for points efficiency there. So, I agree with you on that particular point, but I already said I did so I'm not sure what revelation you are offering me.

Outside of 4+ cover the Ravagers perform substantially better than the Venoms - and are also good at hurting things the Venoms can't harm at all, and can cause instant death, and can ignore FNP, and are also still good at killing a wide variety of infantry options.

So the Ravagers are better than an equal point cost of Venoms at killing;

- Anything with a 3+ armor save or better, with less than a 4+ invul/cover save (Termies, Space Marines, non-jinking SM bikes)
- Anything with 2+W and T4 or less (swarms, Tau Suits, Wulfen, ect.)
- Anything with FNP and T4 or less(Assorted Space Marines, Tau, IG, et al)
- Vehicles of any type.
- Super Heavies of any type.


The advantage of the Venom is simply in dealing with light infantry (IG blobs, Eldar Guardians, Nid swarms, et al) - or in dealing with things that have very good cover/invuln saves (DA bikes, thunder shields, et al).

The other advantage they have is that you can get multiple firing platforms of them cheap - so while a single lascannon could kill/force to jink your Ravager, it will only take out 1/3 of a roughly equal amount of points in Venoms. That's the big advantage your list here has over Ravagers.

That said, the above is why I think the Ravager (and the Blaster) are worth taking for TAC lists *and* worth considering for spam infantry killing lists - because they're powerful weapons that still can kill infantry very well. In many ways they're better at killing infantry than splinter weaponry and have the added benefit of being better at killing most things.

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doctorz
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PostSubject: Re: Screw the blasters 1850 tournament list   Wed Mar 02 2016, 14:26

First of all Thor666,I love the podcast, andI hope you keep doing it forever. So I don't want to sound like I'm being combative about this. I'm not even sure this will work. But I think hydranixx has the philosophy down, it's not that I don't see the problems with this list there are a lot. The idea was just that I would focus on the things I can kill and hope to win despite not being able to affect the rest.
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