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Tala
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PostSubject: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Tue Feb 23 2016, 17:08

Hi All,

I'm currently moving across to 40k from the unfortunate demise of fantasy and have chose Dark Eldar as my army based off of the aesthetics and fluff of the army (it also helps that I used to play Dark Elves in fantasy)

I've found a 40k community locally to me and want to start building towards a 2000pt list. I will appreciate any feedback that you all could give me and my list is as follows:

HQ: 110


Succubus - Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive


Troops: 390

10x Kabalite Warriors - 2x Splinter Cannon with a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

10x Kabalite Warriors 2x Splinter Cannon with a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks


Elites: 460

9x Incubi - Klaivex with a Raider with Dark Lance and Night Shields

5x Kabalite Trueborn - 3x Blaster 2x Splinter Cannon with a Venom with a second Splinter Cannon


Fast Attack: 320

10x Scourges

Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Dark Lances, 3x Neurotoxin Missile, 1x Shatterfield Missile, Night Shields


Heavy Support: 365

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

Voidraven Bomber - 2x Shatterfield Missiles, 2x Implosion Missiles, Night Shields


Formation: 355

Dark Artisan

Haemonculus - Agonizer

Talos - Chain Flais, Twin Linked Haywire Blaster

Cronos - Spirit Probe


Please let me know what you think all feedback is appreciated.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Tue Feb 23 2016, 21:34

I like the list. I only advise against mixing weapons in the true born and have one question:
No special weapons for the scourges?

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Tue Feb 23 2016, 22:07

Tala wrote:
Hi All,

I'm currently moving across to 40k from the unfortunate demise of fantasy and have chose Dark Eldar as my army based off of the aesthetics and fluff of the army (it also helps that I used to play Dark Elves in fantasy)

Welcome aboard! You've chosen the best race to work with, and from your origins, you're already familiar with backstabbing, evil elves. The main difference is that now your backstabbing, evil elves come with lasers and fly in spaceships.

Tala wrote:
I've found a 40k community locally to me and want to start building towards a 2000pt list.

This is quite an ambitious points limit to commence things with. Normally, I'd recommend starting at 500 or 750pts, and then working towards 1000 - 1500 pts.

Nonetheless, on to your list:

Tala wrote:
Succubus - Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive

Great choice, but I'd include haywire grenades if you can spare 5 pts.

Tala wrote:
10x Kabalite Warriors - 2x Splinter Cannon with a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

10x Kabalite Warriors 2x Splinter Cannon with a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

You can't take 2 heavy weapons unless your squad numbers 20 bodies total, which by the way, is a pretty terrible way to play Kabalites. Simply remove a splinter cannon from each unit and you're good to go. Splinter Cannons aren't really good on infantry anymore because they're Salvo (shoot at half range if they move) so you can consider saving even more by dropping both Splinter Cannons from each unit. The Raiders themselves are fine though.

Most people would recommend picking up Venoms and using smaller units of Kabalites in them. For the price you're paying for your two Raiders, you can instead buy 4 or 5 Venoms, each with a 5 man squad of Kabalites.

Tala wrote:
9x Incubi - Klaivex with a Raider with Dark Lance and Night Shields

This is a very expensive unit that will die very quickly if you expose it to any shooting. On the flip side, it hits like a tonne of bricks. I assume you're taking the Succubus with these guys, in which case the Haywire Grenades are even more of a must take. A single ~40pt Killakan can tie the entire unit in a combat they can never win. You have to be so careful with Incubi because walkers and big scary monsters wreck them in combat.

Tala wrote:
5x Kabalite Trueborn - 3x Blaster 2x Splinter Cannon with a Venom with a second Splinter Cannon

I see a lot of people build this unit, but I really don't think it's efficient spending of points. The two weapons here have different optimum ranges and targets. Consider 4 with blasters and 1 retaining his splinter rifle.

Tala wrote:
10x Scourges

Scourges are one of our very best units, but they absolutely must take special weapons. Divide these into two units of 5, and equip one unit with Haywire Blasters and the other with your choice of Haywire Blasters, Heat Lances or Blasters.

Tala wrote:
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Dark Lances, 3x Neurotoxin Missile, 1x Shatterfield Missile, Night Shields

Razorwing's, again, are one of our best units, but you've spent all the points on this instead of on your scourges. The missiles are not worth upgrading - the base monoscythe missles are arguably the best of the options anyway, and come for free. Night Shields is ok, since you likely will jink with this the turn after it comes on and empties all it's missiles at something.

Also note, Razorwings have no access to shatterfield missiles.

Tala wrote:
Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

Staple unit. Night Shields are not always a necessity - I'd rather spend the 15 pts elsewhere, but they're not a total waste on them. The problem is that you only have one Ravager, when at 2000 pts, most players would field between 3 and 6 of them (using two detachments)

Tala wrote:
Voidraven Bomber - 2x Shatterfield Missiles, 2x Implosion Missiles, Night Shields

It's just too expensive. For the price of this, you can buy two more ravagers, which will be more reliable and available to help you from the start of the game.

Tala wrote:
Dark Artisan

Haemonculus - Agonizer

Talos - Chain Flais, Twin Linked Haywire Blaster

Cronos - Spirit Probe

Pretty decent, but you can do better. Try a cheaper combat option of the Haemonculus. He also always wants a Webway Portal so that your monsters can get where they're needed. I play this unit with a Scizzorhand +WWP Haemy, Talos with Ichor Injector and Heat Lance and my Cronos is just like yours.

TL;DR:
- Streamline your units to be specialists (Either blasters OR Splinter weapons)
- Split your points into multiple small units rather than fewer, larger units.
- Get some Venoms! Smile

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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Tue Feb 23 2016, 23:56

Hi Hydranixx,

Thank you for your feedback, I've adjusted my list based off your feedback and my list now appears as below but I did have a few questions if you wouldn't mind trouble shooting for me?


HQ: 115


Succubus - Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenades

(With the weaponry available to the Archon is she still better placed for CC? You were correct in thinking she'd go with the Incubi).


Troops: 330

10x Kabalite Warriors - With a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

10x Kabalite Warriors - With a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

(Are the Venoms as good it just seems to me that getting twin-linked for the poison shots is something which can't be turned down. I will hold my hands up and say I'm a beginner I just feel like something isn't clicking in my head in regards to the Venoms).


Elites: 440

9x Incubi - Klaivex with a Raider with Dark Lance and Night Shields

5x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster with a Venom with a second Splinter Cannon



Fast Attack: 458

5x Scourges - 4 Haywire Blasters

5x Scourges - 4 Haywire Blasters

Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missiles, Night Shields

3x Reavers - Cluster Caltrops

(The Reavers are now here as I couldn't think of what else to put in the list)


Heavy Support: 280

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

(Again apologies for the basic question but you said about running 3-6 of these in two detachments, what do you mean by that?)


Formation: 375

Dark Artisan

Haemonculus - Scissorhand, WWP

Talos - Ichor Injector, Twin Linked Heat Lance

Cronos - Spirit Probe

Again thank you for the feedback it is greatly appreciated.

CptMetal the reason for the scourges being bare was purely down to points cost I was trying to keep the unit cheaper and didn't think of splitting the unit up.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Wed Feb 24 2016, 03:42

Tala wrote:

Succubus - Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenades

(With the weaponry available to the Archon is she still better placed for CC? You were correct in thinking she'd go with the Incubi).

Yes, I'm afraid to say she is stronger than our Archon in CC. Back in the day, Archons were true terrors, and could single handedly end games with sheer powerful CC. But that was many editions ago, and sadly in this Codex we currently have, the Archon cannot even penetrate 2+ armour saves that things like Terminators have.


Tala wrote:
Troops: 330

10x Kabalite Warriors - With a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

10x Kabalite Warriors - With a Raider with Night Shields and Splinter Racks

(Are the Venoms as good it just seems to me that getting twin-linked for the poison shots is something which can't be turned down. I will hold my hands up and say I'm a beginner I just feel like something isn't clicking in my head in regards to the Venoms).

This looks better, because it's cheaper and more focussed. That's a theme to go for in Dark Eldar lists - unit that are focussed/specialised and aim to perform a single task to the full extent of their abilities.

As for your question, yes Venoms are in fact better shooting platforms for the most part. They can move 12" and then shoot 12 shots at 36" range on their own, while their passengers can shoot if they move only 6". The raider can only move 6" if the passengers want to shoot, and their range is only 24" for a single shot, or 12" for rapid fire shots - each shooting twice.

Twin linking IS good, you're correct. But their optimum range exposes them to a lot of incoming fire, and they will often lost at least a turn of shooting just getting into place. If Gunboat can shoot, they shoot well. But firing from far longer ranges and being much more mobile at the same time is generally better, which is what the Venom excels at, and for a cheaper price.

Perhaps try a mix to see for yourself. You can make a list at almost any points limit that has a Raider squad like you have above and 1-2 Venoms with 5 Kabalites in it.


Tala wrote:
5x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster with a Venom with a second Splinter Cannon

This looks a lot more defined as an elites choice, and is cheaper as well. You can rely on them to harass tanks quite well, and even kill multi wound models with their S8 AP2 guns. You will prefer this unit this way, trust me.


Tala wrote:
Fast Attack: 458

5x Scourges - 4 Haywire Blasters

5x Scourges - 4 Haywire Blasters

Razorwing Jetfighter - 2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missiles, Night Shields

3x Reavers - Cluster Caltrops

(The Reavers are now here as I couldn't think of what else to put in the list)

This entire section looks vastly improved from their previous entry. These units will each have defined roles and are better for it. The reavers are a good inclusion, but they will require another detachment, which I'll touch on in your next entry on the list.


Tala wrote:
Heavy Support: 280

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

(Again apologies for the basic question but you said about running 3-6 of these in two detachments, what do you mean by that?)

Each army list is created from a combination of detachment(s) or formation(s). You have access to taking multiple detachments and/or formations as well, depending on the format you're playing.

The basic detachment is a CAD (Combined Arms Detachment) and consists of a minimum of 2 troop choices and an HQ choice, to which you can add 3 heavy support, 3 fast attack, 3 elite, 4 additional troops, and one additional HQ option.

Therefore, in a single CAD, you are permitted up to 3 Ravagers. If you decided to have an army list with 2 CADs, you would be permitted to up to 6 Ravagers, as you'd have access to 6 Heavy Support entries, being 3 from each CAD. Of course, you would also have to meet the minimum requirements for each CAD, being an HQ and 2 Troop choices each.

Dark Eldar also have an exclusive Detachment called Realspace Raiders, which is very similar to a CAD, but offers 3 additional Fast Attack options, and places a requirement of at least 1 Fast Attack option being used. It offers additional rules to the units in the detachment, which you can find in your Codex.

You can also see why cheaper Kabalites+Venoms are popular here, because they're easier to acquire to meet the minimum requirements for additional detachments etc.

Tala wrote:
Formation: 375

Dark Artisan

Haemonculus - Scissorhand, WWP

Talos - Ichor Injector, Twin Linked Heat Lance

Cronos - Spirit Probe

See, there this formation is added onto your list in a separate entry from any detachments you have. The formation consists of exactly 1 unit, and does not take up any heavy support or HQ slots, as it is not contained within any of your detachments.

As for the Dark Artisan itself, it's looking good now. I recommend magnetising the Talos weapons so that you can configure it different ways to change up your build on it - it's quite a versatile monster.

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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Wed Feb 24 2016, 10:42

Hi Hydranixx,

I'll think it'll take me using a mixture of Venoms and Raiders to make my choice as I'm sure I'll see the benefits of Venoms after 1 game. I just love the look and idea of the twin-linked raiders.

Using the Realspace Raiders detachment you are allowing up to 5 Fast Attack using this detachment am I correct in thinking this would make the above list legal?

I'll be sure to magnetise my Talos and various of models as I'm sure the flexibility will be key!
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Wed Feb 24 2016, 20:02

Tala wrote:
I'll think it'll take me using a mixture of Venoms and Raiders to make my choice as I'm sure I'll see the benefits of Venoms after 1 game. I just love the look and idea of the twin-linked raiders.

Raiders are pure sexy, make no mistake. There's actually another thread here about the pros and cons of Raiders vs Venoms, quite recently here. After a few games you can make up your mind Smile

Tala wrote:
Using the Realspace Raiders detachment you are allowing up to 5 Fast Attack using this detachment am I correct in thinking this would make the above list legal?

You are allowed up to 6 total Fast Attack options in the Realspace Raiders detachment, but you MUST fill at least one of these 6. Effectively, instead of being 0 - 3 Fast Attack options, it's 1 - 6 Fast Attack options. So yes, your above list is find for the detachment.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Thu Feb 25 2016, 12:23

Thank you for the link to the thread it made very interesting reading and like you stated there are pros and cons for each option.

I believe it is best to run a mixture to start with to see what fits my play style the best.

Perfect if that fits into the the Realspace Raiders detachment that works nicely.

Again thank you for all your help the last few days you've helped a newbie considerably.

I ran my first Dark Eldar game last night with a condensed version of this list, we played kill points at 750pts and I got a 3-3 out of it against Necrons so I was very happy!
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Sun Mar 27 2016, 23:31

Okay fairly new here myself but wouldn't it be better to just have splinter rifles in the venoms?? I mean you would be wasting the AP weapons on troops or poison shots on AV targets
.?? You have scourges, ravengers and razor wing for AV units. Just my opinion. Probably wrong though.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Mon Mar 28 2016, 01:07

+1 to pretty much everything hydranixx said. All very good advice. One more thing though, regarding the realspace raiders detachment. It has one VERY large weakness vs a traditional CAD: None of your troops will be objective secured. I've personally found objective secured to be THE most common special rule that wins games with eldar or dark eldar because of the fast movement we have available to us.

In a list like yours, with only 2 troop gunboats, it gives you 4 obsec units(2 warriors and 2 raiders). In many of our more troop-focused lists, we can utilize obsec in MSU to make it basically impossible for the opponent to kill enough for us NOT to capture objectives. For instance, running 2 CADs with 6 min warrior squads each in venoms gives us 24 obsec units for around 1400 points.

And let's face it: Points/Objectives win games. So many games have been lost by someone on the cusp of tabling their opponent, simply because their opponent focused on capturing objectives. I actually lost a game at the Las Vegas Open to a DE player who only had 1 reaver jetbike and a minimum unit of windrider jetbikes left at the end of the game because he scored more points than me, even though his army was -almost- completely destroyed. Wink

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Mon Mar 28 2016, 08:02

But you would only waste 4 dudes inside the Venom when you're shooting with the Blaster against tanks because Venom and dude can fire at separate targets.

4 wated rifles is acceptable when I'm gaining versatility.

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JayDee327
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Mon Mar 28 2016, 21:14

Thanks Cpt.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Mon Mar 28 2016, 21:15

JayDee327 wrote:
Okay fairly new here myself but wouldn't it be better to just have splinter rifles in the venoms?? I mean you would be wasting the AP weapons on troops or poison shots on AV targets
.?? You have scourges, ravengers and razor wing for AV units. Just my opinion. Probably wrong though.

CptMetal wrote:
But you would only waste 4 dudes inside the Venom when you're shooting with the Blaster against tanks because Venom and dude can fire at separate targets.

4 wasted rifles is acceptable when I'm gaining versatility.

I generally agree with you on this topic Jaydee. But putting a blaster into a single squad of 5 warriors isn't a cardinal sin or anything, and Metal is right that it's only wasting 4 rifle shots(8 in rapid fire range). So if I'm looking for a unit to put my Blaster-Archon in, I might consider a minimum warrior squad with a blaster to give them a total of 2 blaster shots.

That said, his assertion that "you're only wasting 4 rifle shots" falls apart when people start running ALL of their 5-man warrior squads with a single blaster. These lists are very inefficient, and a single CAD that runs their troops like this can potentially be wasting 48 splinter shots per turn(or 2 dead daemon princes Very Happy).

Basically, it's worth it in a very limited scope, but shouldn't be considered a standard way to build your list.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure Dark Eldar   Mon Mar 28 2016, 22:25

Sounds legit. Tha KS for clearing it up for meh.
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