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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Medusae    Wed Feb 17 2016, 01:24

So how do you guys run them? Are they worth it? Do they usually make their points back for you? 4 man squads with archon, wwp, and a venom sounds like the best bang for the buck. Also is there a better way than buying 8, $16 models that converting would come close to their appearance? I think they could do very well to destroy scat bikes, marines as usual, Raven wing nonsense, nurglings hiding in cover, scouts, etc.
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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Wed Feb 17 2016, 01:35

When I run them I do so as a single model with a venom as a designated transport to cover the mandatory HQ. Is 15p more expensive than a llhamaean but adds value against Eldar, the most common tournament opponent, as you can DS with the venom, disembarc 6" and toast some windriders with no jink/armour allowed. If I have points to spare Ill take 2 of this units.

Funny thing is, eldar doesnt have split fire except on the WKs, so they have to waste a whole spider/windrider squad on killing a lone 25p medusae. I giggle everytime.

IMO the problem with medusaes is that people overdo it. They are not D-scyte spectral guards, they dont deserve a dedicated archon with wwp to deliver them. Keep them as cheap and disposable as possible.
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Wed Feb 17 2016, 22:56

I agree with Bizzarre Showbiz. I don't like "real" Dark Eldar HQ, so my choiche is between a Lahmaean and a Medusae (both alone in a venom) depending on how many "spare" point I have.

I like lone Medusae. Sometimes it gets back its points (marines, eldar), sometimes not (necron, gueard), but for sure pepole are overly scared by it and they spend time to try to kill a "stupid" lonely model, so it's ok to me.

I think 4 are overkilling and utterly overpriced if combined with an archone with wwp. 250/300 points for a short range unit that will lose ANY close combat?! No thanks

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kuni
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 00:14

I don't like our HQ's (except the dark artisan), but I wouldn't use a medusae as one. My medusae are run in a 2 man suicide squad deep striking in a venom. if the venom scatters, well they can disembark 6 inches to still get a nice double flame template. Usually there isn't a unit left just from 2, so 4 is over kill. There have been a couple times (intercept) that they have come down and died straight away, but its only 50 points for the squad so no biggy. It's probably one of the most feared units in my army at my local gaming group.

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 01:29

@BizarreShowbiz wrote:
IMO the problem with medusaes is that people overdo it.

I think the problem is not overdoing the unit, but that people rely on only Medusae, so they fall flat when their optimum targets don't appear. See below

@Gherma wrote:
I think 4 are overkilling and utterly overpriced if combined with an archone with wwp. 250/300 points for a short range unit that will lose ANY close combat?! No thanks

I think you're only considering playing 4 of them, and relying on them alone as the core model in the unit. There's a better option that - Sslyth. Mixing in Sslyth rounds out there durability, range and combat ability. 3 Medusae and 4 Sslyth are a perfect combination for raw damage and survivability.

EDIT - Also, even pure medusae don't lose ANY close combat. Their overwatch is brutal, they're still I5, and you probably have them in cover since their targets are often in cover. Besides which, with the Sslyth or Archon added in, they don't have to fight any close combat on their own.

@kuni wrote:
I don't like our HQ's (except the dark artisan), but I wouldn't use a medusae as one.  My medusae are run in a 2 man suicide squad deep striking in a venom.  if the venom scatters, well they can disembark 6 inches to still get a nice double flame template.  Usually there isn't a unit left just from 2, so 4 is over kill.  There have been a couple times (intercept) that they have come down and died straight away, but its only 50 points for the squad so no biggy.  It's probably one of the most feared units in my army at my local gaming group.

Agreed, this is a pretty strong choice overall. It's at a similar price range to a 5 man Kabalite unit in a venom, but it hits so much harder.

@Xm0shcryptX

Medusae are amazing on the offence, but super fragile at the same time. They epitomise our entire codex, effectively.  However, even though they're super strong at eating MEQ and weaker, they're hopeless against TEQ, vehicles and MCs, and they don't come cheap. So you really need to find a balance of how many points you want to spend on them and how you want them to get in position.

EDIT - Yes, the models are very costly. As for converting them, there's a plethora of options to the creative mind. I'm fairly boring, and opted for some of these guys here. I aim to add some suitably Dark Eldar apparel/chains to them.

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 04:15

Think I am going to run two squads of 3 medusae in their own venoms, have em disembark and melt units clinging to cover or meq/worse. I could really use the anti scatter bike or Ravenwing bikes
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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 11:43

I like running 3 in a venom with an archon and WWP.  My meta has a lot of bike heavy armies though, so I often need an ap3 weapon that ignores cover.  If I only ran one, then I'd kill a model or two and that would be the end of it.  The great thing about having several templates in one unit is that they accumulate so many hits.  If I didn't have the precision landing, I wouldn't take the risk of the targets I like to make to maximize hits or to minimize LOS to me.  In comparison to the Wraithguard, the advantage is you don't need to disembark from the Wave Serpent so you get a lot of survivability from a jinking raider with night shields.

My last game was against a White Scars monstrosity with the new triptide formation allied in.  Porting in my medusae wiped out the scars command squad and left his Khan hanging by a thread so I easily got my points back.  

My second game that day was against Tyranid and they were able to land near an objective and then completely remove the Broodlord and 9 man genestealer unit to make the objective mine.  He tried to charge me in his next turn but the overwatch alone crippled another unit.  Granted, Tyranid are an easy opponent and this one really wasn't as tough of a game or as strong of a list as my first match that day.

I don't always take them, and yes sometimes I just like taking Lhameans with more Venoms, but they can kill units and grab objectives that would be too difficult to get through otherwise with weight of fire from poisoned shots.  The unit also lets you bypass the tanking characters of a unit and cripple the squadmembers who usually do the real damage.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 12:18

I happily pay the cost, sometimes for a large unit, if I know I'm playing Space Marines.
One way or another, AP3 template weapons in a Deep Striking Transport are an excellent way to wipe a key enemy unit from the board.
So if I know I'm playing Marines, I will happily put five in a Venom, or sometimes go for a larger group alongside a Webway Portal wielding HQ in a Raider or Tantalus.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 14:47

I'd always use them in a Raider for the shield. Remember that you can place the Raider anyway you want when it lands. And you can place the template at every part of the hull so you get a good shot.

And night shields are making it so much more reliable!
If I port it in with an Archon I have such a good unit that the enemy is forced to focus fire and my grotesques are getting to work.

But taking three with an Archon and adding another one as a single one in a Venom seems like a good idea!
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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 18 2016, 15:44

My current tournament list has 2 wwp archons 2 squads of fire dragons and two squads of 3 medusae. Depending on the need I can put the archon where he is needed most for accuracy
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Fri Feb 19 2016, 23:16

I don't play tournaments but I the do the same set up as XmO. With all the insaine formation shinatigans, you have to fight fire with fire
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Sat Feb 20 2016, 17:01

I bought a couple a while ago with the intention of converting two more with the spare heads. I intend to run them as a squad of four with a shadowfield/WWP Archon to tank wounds so they can hopefully get another turn of template fun in. I am undecided on whether or not they should go in a transport though. They seem like they should be fairly easy to hide without one, and if I put them in the right place they'll hopefully be able to walk to their next target, or at least make a mess of something in overwatch.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Sat Feb 20 2016, 18:39

A Medusae is a pretty good anti-MEQ weapon. My two favourite ways of playing them are:

1 Medusae and 3 Sslyth along with Portal Archon with an Agonizer and Shadowfield (and a Soul Trap, if I have points to spare) in a Venom or a Raider with Splinter Racks.
I use the Archon to hunt enemy Warlords and other dangerous characters. The Medusae's role is to thin out the target's squad before assaulting and to make everything short of Terminators think twice before assaulting mine.

Or;

4 Medusae with a Portal Archon with a Blaster, possibly in a Venom.
They are used to melt entire enemy squads in Power Armor or less, preferably Devastators and the like. Alternatively, they can also remove enemies from objectives and key positions.
The Archon has a Blaster in case there is a vehicle in range, but no infantry to burn. And it also provides a good chance to kill one more Marine, in case the Medusae couldn't finish the job.


A lot of eggs in one fragile basket, I know. But the impact they can have on the oponent's battle plan is usually worth it.
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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Sat Feb 20 2016, 19:05

I always read how awesome they are. But I've read pretty close to every lost on this forum and they are very very very rarely used. It blows my mind cuz they sound amazing
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Sat Feb 20 2016, 23:44

My first hand running then was 4 in a Venom with a WWP Haemonculus - I run Grotesquerie and needed something useful to do with the guy who comes with it.

I ran a minimal deployment setup against a CSM autocannon spam list, deploying my Reavers out of range and deep striking everything else. Medusae came in on turn 2 and toasted two entire Havoc squads. I like them.
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Wed Feb 24 2016, 14:50

I just ran them at a local tournament (3 games):

2x 3 medusae with dedicated WWP & Blaster Archon and Venom. I know this is an expensive setup but if I invest in such a unit at all I need to be 100% sure that they hit their target. Also this give me the flexibility of deploying the Venoms and still deep strike the squad if I think that I need the Venoms sooner.

Game 1 vs Khorne Demonkin
They arrived turn 2 one squad roasted 8 Khorne Berzerkers, the other 8-9 Bloodletters. Both got killed in the following turn.

Game 2 vs Ravenwing Bikespam with Darkshroud
Since I wasn't able to blow up the Darkshroud in turn 1 (2+ re-rollable) I had already lost at that point. One squad didn't come in at all (the one with my warlord), even with re-rolls from a comms relay. Can't fault them for it really the way the battle was going. The other squad toasted a good portion of one Black Knight unit including their Apothecary/Sanguinary priest (BA allies).

Game 3 vs Chaos Space Marines/Demons
Squad 1 banished my opponents pink horror battery back into the warp including a herald (with a little bit of help from some venoms), then got charged by terminators and died. Squad 2 came down hard upon a summoned unit of 10 daemonettes that threatened my backfield. This squad also survived the rest of the game.

Note: I always deployed without the venoms as I wanted to have their firepower from turn 1.

Final verdict
I really want to like medusae, I really do. A precision deep struck AP3 flamer is fantastic imo, even at strength 4. But man, the whole setup is so expensive, and fragile on top of that. It's an almost 200pt suicide squad (without the venom).

The only reason I still like it and would probably use it again is the sheer fear factor this unit commands. That, and it can touch stuff that might be hidden from our other guns. But maybe just one unit next time. The cost/effectiveness ratio is just too bad.

PS: Not sure who else does this, but the "detach the WWP character from the unit the same time it comes DSing in to shoot at a different target" actually seems to be against the rules: detaching a character happens by moving out of coherency if memory serves me correctly, and since you can't move after DSing... bah Sad

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Thu Feb 25 2016, 13:55

Depending on the size of the game, as always, I like to make a court with 2 medusae and 3 Sslyth. If it is a rather low point game I stick them in a venom without the extra cannon, and either start them in reserves, or behind LOS and try to get to where there are fresh faces to melt, darting from cover to cover. Or, I deepstrike them without a portal if I don't think they will survive zooming up the board.
In bigger games I like to add one more sslyth, a WWP shadow field archon and put them in a raider with nightshields (no lance or other upgrades). This gets a bit costly but the jinking raider can potentially weather a lot of medium firepower. When i breaks and they have to hoof it, the archon can try to tank wounds with majority T5 and his 2++. The T5 also helps against the inevitable explosion but you better get them in cover or CC once they have lost their ride.
If I have the points I give the venom chainsnares since it has to get up close for the template anyway. People excpect a venom to hang back and shoot, not to run them over.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Sat Feb 27 2016, 01:24

@Scrz wrote:
I stick them in a venom without the extra cannon

Alarm bells be ringing. Always take two cannons. Always.

Otherwise, the Venom falls way short of its damage potential.

At any point you feel you might not take the extra splinter cannon, simply take a Raider. Either of its main guns are better than a single venom cannon, particularly since you already have so many poison shots inside, and it also has another hull point.

@Scrz wrote:
When i breaks and they have to hoof it, the archon can try to tank wounds with majority T5 and his 2++.

Yeah, this is pretty nice way to keep the unit healthy. Even though it is quite costly, it's still requires a lot of attention and firepower when it arrives. If your opponent doesn't have a way to land strength 10 large blasts on you, they can be quite resilient for non-coven Dark Eldar.

And if they're a melee army they'll cry even more, because 2-3 overwatching Medusae followed by multiple Sslyth attachs is no joke..

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Tue Mar 01 2016, 14:03

@hydranixx wrote:
Always take two cannons. Always.
Yeah that is the common opinion.
I have some thinking behind my choice though.
I point out to my opponent that it is a venom with nooo upgrades, at all, whatsover and all my other ones have TWO dangerous splinter cannons. Maybe they fall for it maybe they don't. Worth a shot.
I don't want to expose the venom to anything while I dart up the table, turbo boosting, so I won't shoot with it anyway. When I do commit, it might get one round of shooting and then I have to jink the rest of the game or boost again if it survives the return fire. It rearly ever does any damage with shooting.
The same goes if I deepstrike. 1 turn of shooting and dead or jinking forever.
A venom is also easyer to hide behind LOS blocking terrain than a raider, and way easier to deepstrike without mishap. Heck, if I could opt to take off the built in splinter cannon or downgrade it, I would. jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Medusae    Tue Mar 01 2016, 16:14

I love medusae personally. I like em big also, 5 man with a WWP archon in a Raider.

My only anti-cover unit, I fight a lot of Ravenwing... 2+ rerollable jink, bye bye. If I can get my template to cover 5 marines. Thats 25 hits, a third of which will wound, rounding down thats 8 dead bikers. Go ahead, charge em >Smile they can kill important units in cover, and no other unit of ours does it better.

I bring them all the time, and my Archons either WWP with my blasterborn or my medusae. Who ever doesnt get the WWP trip gets a ride in a venom. Its tactically flexible, and fun to play imo.

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