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ZeTe
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PostSubject: don't know if this is the right place   Sun Feb 14 2016, 15:41

hi guys i recently made my first purchase of DE. and i have a set idea for my army but i was looking at the GW store and realised they only have male archon models. which made me think what would be a good base model to start making my own female archon models from?

also if i am using DE, Eldar & harlequins can i put my archon, spirit seer & shadowseer into one unit?
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Sun Feb 14 2016, 17:30

Raging Heroes have Female Archon, they made her to represent Lady Malys. Or you could convert her from various Dark Eldar or Dark Elf kits.
Yes, you can. You can have Cast of Players formations which is a troop, shadowseer and jester and put into Raider with Archon.

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Sun Feb 14 2016, 17:39

if i am taking the shadowseer & death jester as 2 separate elites , in the masque formation can i still add them to an archon and then add a spirit seer to them as well? as i plan on running the archon with a dedicated transport and have the rest of his squad built up of the spirit seer and shadow seer (was going to put the Death jester with them but decided he would be better with one of the troupes) is that possible (sorry I'm recently only starting 40k).
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Sun Feb 14 2016, 17:50

Read Independant Characters rule. Generally yes, you can join IC to one another.

Also Masque detachment is too heavy, you need to have a lot of Harlies forces with it.

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Sun Feb 14 2016, 19:11

tbh the main force of the army is harlequins with a few unbound choices in elder and a few unbound choices in dark elder to make up the full 2k points.

i could post up my army list if you would like?
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 02:10

You can't run a masque detachment if you go even partially unbound.

Also our entire plastic range is mix and match so it is incredibly simple to make a female archon model out of the archon kit and the Kabalite Warrior kit.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 02:43

Indeed.

If you want a cooler archon the aforementioned Raging Heroes not only has one out now, but is currently fulfilling a KS with a dozen or so female dark space elf minis suitable to be archons.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 10:53

@amorrowlyday wrote:
You can't run a masque detachment if you go even partially unbound.

Also our entire plastic range is mix and match so it is incredibly simple to make a female archon model out of the archon kit and the Kabalite Warrior kit.

so how would i run my army of elder, dark elder and harlequins together if i can't run my elder and dark elder unbound?
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 11:07

You combine the detachments, any number of them.

For example basic detachment is Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) which is 1HQ + 2Troops + Optional Choices defined in the rulebook. There are specific detachments such as Relaspace Raiders, it is described in the codex.

Formation from the Codexes also counts as detachments. You follow the restriction and may take it, along with the bonuses it comes with.

You can take for example CAD+Formation, from any book, or CAD+CAD, or CAD+CAD+CAD, if you have enough points.

Read the rulebook for more info, its not very complicated ruleset right now.

Unbound is basically when you wanna turn away from all this detachments system and just bring what models you have. In exchange for that freedom you lose bonuses contributed from different detachments and formations. Because of this and because of silly lists you can build with no limitations it is not widely accepted.

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 11:14

@Azdrubael wrote:
Unbound is basically when you wanna turn away from all this detachments system and just bring what models you have. In exchange for that freedom you lose bonuses contributed from different detachments and formations

Not quite true. You retain formation special rules even in unbound lists. So, for example in an Eldar/DE/Harlequins list you could run a Craftworld Aspect Host, a Harlequin Cast of Players and a DE Corpsethief Claw (all formations) and they would retain all their special rules. If you also ran a DE CAD, they would not get Objective Secured or the reroll on Warlord Traits.

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 11:53

so i am able to take a masque (3 troop, 2 FA & 1 Heavy) with my unbound DE (archon , scourges & hellions) and my unbound Eldar (spirit seer, hawks & spiders) but i wouldn't get any bonuses for the DE & elder is that right?

so about all the questions i don't have any of the codices atm or the BRB (next planned purchases though) and the last time i played (might have been 3rd ed) i don't remember building armies being such a mind frak (excuse my language but i couldn't thinking of a polite way to say that).

thanks for all your help and advice guys (lol politest DE player ever Razz)
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 12:16

@ZeTe wrote:
so i am able to take a masque (3 troop, 2 FA & 1 Heavy) with my unbound DE (archon , scourges & hellions) and my unbound Eldar (spirit seer, hawks & spiders) but i wouldn't get any bonuses for the DE & elder is that right?

Unfortunately the Masque is a detachment, not a formation, so you would not get any of the special rules for the Masque (Emissary of Cegorach or Rising Crescendo) in an Unbound list. If you took the Cegorach's Revenge formation, which is quite similar to the Masque, you would get those special rules, as they are included in the formation rules (along with Consummate Performance).


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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 13:00

As a quick note on your first topic - a base for a female Archon - the Archon model's armour is extremely similar to a basic Kabalites anyway, so using a normal female Warrior body (or at least front torso) would probably work just as well.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 13:03

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Unfortunately the Masque is a detachment, not a formation, so you would not get any of the special rules for the Masque (Emissary of Cegorach or Rising Crescendo) in an Unbound list. If you took the Cegorach's Revenge formation, which is quite similar to the Masque, you would get those special rules, as they are included in the formation rules (along with Consummate Performance).

the problem with this that i am having atm is i am using battle scribe to help build my army and the only option i can use to get harlequins to work properly is the masque option it has no other options to set up harlequins in any other way so i am limited in what ways i can actually build an army for 2k points

what if i took DE as CAD, the harlequins as masque and elder as unbound would that be a legal army (I'm not really to fused atm about formation special rules until i have actually played a few games to learn / solidify rules in my head first) i just want to build an army that is legal and i would like to play tbh
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 13:43

Sadly no, that would still be an unbound force due to the Eldar being unbound. However, the rule book specificly states that it is perfectly fine to run unbound so it's perfectly fine to play games with what you've isted earlier and in that army you just wont get the benefits for running CAD and Masque detachments which since you're out to relearn the game shouldn't be a big deal.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 13:44

@ZeTe wrote:
the problem with this that i am having atm is i am using battle scribe to help build my army and the only option i can use to get harlequins to work properly is the masque option it has no other options to set up harlequins in any other way so i am limited in what ways i can actually build an army for 2k points

At the risk of being facetious, just use pen and paper! Battlescribe is a useful tool but it can't (or shouldn't) define what we can and cannot do with our armies. I'm not sure it even supports unbound lists!

Quote :
what if i took DE as CAD, the harlequins as masque and elder as unbound would that be a legal army (I'm not really to fused atm about formation special rules until i have actually played a few games to learn / solidify rules in my head first) i just want to build an army that is legal and i would like to play tbh

As soon as you put an unbound element into your army, the whole army becomes unbound. So there's nothing to stop you doing this but some people might not play against you because, rightly or wrongly, many people regard unbound lists as 'wrong'.


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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 13:47

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@ZeTe wrote:
the problem with this that i am having atm is i am using battle scribe to help build my army and the only option i can use to get harlequins to work properly is the masque option it has no other options to set up harlequins in any other way so i am limited in what ways i can actually build an army for 2k points

At the risk of being facetious, just use pen and paper! Battlescribe is a useful tool but it can't (or shouldn't) define what we can and cannot do with our armies. I'm not sure it even supports unbound lists!

Quote :
what if i took DE as CAD, the harlequins as masque and elder as unbound would that be a legal army (I'm not really to fused atm about formation special rules until i have actually played a few games to learn / solidify rules in my head first) i just want to build an army that is legal and i would like to play tbh

As soon as you put an unbound element into your army, the whole army becomes unbound. So there's nothing to stop you doing this but some people might not play against you because, rightly or wrongly, many people regard unbound lists as 'wrong'.



so the only problem i would be facing if i built the army i have in mind is players with bitchy attitudes is that correct?
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 14:21

Thats always a potential problem no matter what you do!
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Mon Feb 15 2016, 14:28

@Imateria wrote:
Thats always a potential problem no matter what you do!

ha ha ha true that them dice rolls for one llf

but i can field 2k of elder/harlequins & DEldar made up of which ever units i choose (without falling into 1hq & 2 troop choice restrictions)? and not be told no you can't play that its illegal?
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 00:17

Yes, it's perfectly within the rules of the game to do that, you just wont get the bonuses for Detachments like you would for a full battle forged army.

There are definitely some people who hate the idea of unbound, but as long as your opponent is aware that your new and using these initial games to learn what the rules and what your army can do then it shouldn't be much of a problem. I just wouldn't keep going unbound for too long, not least because armies tend to work better with the bonuses from detachments and formations.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 05:23

On the topic of learning 7th's ruleset and designing army lists, have you considered proxying some models as others?

For example, use some of your Eldar as "counts as" Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors. That way you can play a list that is not unbound (Archon, Kabalites, Scourges and Hellions) and get some practise in.

Just so you know, there's also a formation for Eldar that is literally just 3 units of Aspect Warriors. Any aspect warrior units, in any combination. So you can play your Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks +1 other Aspect unit of your choice in their own mini army, added onto your other choices for Dark Eldar or Harlequins. Again, proxying is your friend - you can use other models as Dark Reapers/Shining Spears etc.

Just be sure you tell your opponent what each unit 'counts as' before you begin. Most people would vastly prefer your proxy a few things than run an unbound list.

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:27

@Imateria wrote:
Yes, it's perfectly within the rules of the game to do that, you just wont get the bonuses for Detachments like you would for a full battle forged army.

There are definitely some people who hate the idea of unbound, but as long as your opponent is aware that your new and using these initial games to learn what the rules and what your army can do then it shouldn't be much of a problem. I just wouldn't keep going unbound for too long, not least because armies tend to work better with the bonuses from detachments and formations.


cheers man, tbh i will only be playing against a few other players (brother and 2 friends) and they are also in the learning stage so i really don't see a problem with that and once i learn how to make an army properly with detachments/formations i can rework what I'm playing with.

@hydranixx

if you could, would you be able to get me the name of that formation that lets me pick the aspect warriors, as the main problem i have been having with my army is that i can't get elder in atm without using guardians (which i don't want to do as i have a fluff story of why my army is made of what it is).

thanks for any advice and further assistance you can give me Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:35

No double posts please - use the Edit function. Thanks - Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:53

@ZeTe wrote:
@Imateria wrote:
Yes, it's perfectly within the rules of the game to do that, you just wont get the bonuses for Detachments like you would for a full battle forged army.

There are definitely some people who hate the idea of unbound, but as long as your opponent is aware that your new and using these initial games to learn what the rules and what your army can do then it shouldn't be much of a problem. I just wouldn't keep going unbound for too long, not least because armies tend to work better with the bonuses from detachments and formations.


cheers man, tbh i will only be playing against a few other players (brother and 2 friends) and they are also in the learning stage so i really don't see a problem with that and once i learn how to make an army properly with detachments/formations i can rework what I'm playing with.

@hydranixx

if you could, would you be able to get me the name of that formation that lets me pick the aspect warriors, as the main problem i have been having with my army is that i can't get elder in atm without using guardians (which i don't want to do as i have a fluff story of why my army is made of what it is).

thanks for any advice and further assistance you can give me Very Happy

It's the Aspect Host.

If your problem is the troop choice for Craftworld Eldar, remember that Dire Avengers and Rangers are both troop choices, you don't have to use Guardians.
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PostSubject: Re: don't know if this is the right place   Tue Feb 16 2016, 21:04

@ZeTe wrote:
if you could, would you be able to get me the name of that formation that lets me pick the aspect warriors, as the main problem i have been having with my army is that i can't get elder in atm without using guardians (which i don't want to do as i have a fluff story of why my army is made of what it is).

thanks for any advice and further assistance you can give me Very Happy

It's called the Aspect Host.

Your three units also all add either +1 to their WS or +1 to their BS - which is incredible. You can have either your Dark Reapers/Dire Avengers/Warp Spiders/Fire Dragons/Swooping Hawks get far more accurate, or your Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions/Shining Spears hit more often in close combat.

It's a solid, stand alone choice for including powerful Eldar units without needing things like Guardians, as you say, or even any HQ selections. Just pick up your choice of shooting Aspect warrior (or Proxy them! Razz ) and you'll have all the pieces you need to make this formation.

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