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 Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:02

Made some changes to Hellions and their Skyboards, incorporating a lot of the stuff that was talked about earlier.

Hellions
+1A for Hellions and Helliarch
Remove close combat weapon
Hellglaive gains Rending
Stun Claw reverts to 5e rules (see Armoury)
Add Move Through Cover and Skyswarm to special rules
Skyswarm
Hellions take to the skies in vast numbers, flocking around their target and bringing it down in a whirl of deadly blades
A unit composed entirely of models with this special rule may declare charges against zooming flyers and swooping flying monstrous creatures. Charge distances are measured to the base of the model in the same way as charges against non-flying units. Combat is fought as normal but neither the Hellions nor the flyer/FMC can be locked in combat against each other. Unless killed/wrecked in melee or, in the case of FMCs, destroyed by Sweeping Advance, both the Hellions and the enemy flyer/FMC remain where they are and are free to simply move away in future turns

Hellion Skyboard
Models on Hellion skyboards have the Jump Infantry unit type. Hellion skyboards also confer a 5+ Armour Save, the Jink special rule and are armed with splinter pods. Models on Hellion Skyboards may either Run 2d6” in the shooting phase if they do not shoot OR move 2d6” in the assault phase if they do not assault. In both cases they move using the Skyborne rules

Huskblades, Soul Traps, Archons and Succubi – The Dilemma
Reading through more of the comments on this issue, there still seems to be concern over how good the Archon with Huskblade is compared to the other HQ options and I agree that this needs looking at. Fleshbane, AP2 and Lethal Dose is a pretty decent combo, especially with an Archon’s stats and other wargear (mainly the Shadowfield). There is also a certain worry that there is little reason to take any other wargear selection for the Archon other than possibly a jetbike. As a result, I’ve done the following:

Archon increased to 85 points
Succubus decreased to 70 points, Archite Glaive decreased to 15 points with Shred on both profiles
Reaver Jetbike changed to Succubus only

I’ve also made the Soul Trap available to other HQ units by moving it to the Artefacts of Cruelty list, although that does limit it to 1/army. A Haemonculus with a poison weapon will benefit from increased Strength via rerolls on poison wounds and the Succubus will obviously have a better chance of wounding her opponents after grabbing a few bonus Strength from challenges.

I’ve added the Ichor Injector to the Weapons of Torture list at 20 points but have resisted the urge to make it AP2. If you want AP2 Ichor Injectors we have the Talos!

@hydranixx – I appreciate your comments on Vect but I’m struggling to make them workable without a lot of record keeping. I also can’t really see Vect sacrificing anything of himself to make it work, although he’d cheerfully sacrifice anyone else. My current thinking of 2d6+Ld works reasonably well but hits a few snags against vehicles and high Ld opponents. Whilst that can be offset by Ld penalties if you design your lists in that way, that still doesn’t help against vehicles (including Imperial Knights) so a new method would seem to be required to get an ability that offers a decent chance of success but without being infallible. I'm still thinking about that but will hopefully come up with something.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:34

Not at all convinced about Skyswarm, I mean we're talking about a squad of S4 guys trying to glance the rear armour of a flyer on 6's. Not impossible but I wouldn't count on it for anything but rare situations.

I'd defintiely take a squad of 5 and throw them at Space Marine squads though, kill a few and kidnap the Sgt.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:37

@Imateria wrote:
Not at all convinced about Skyswarm, I mean we're talking about a squad of S4 guys trying to glance the rear armour of a flyer on 6's. Not impossible but I wouldn't count on it for anything but rare situations.

I'd defintiely take a squad of 5 and throw them at Space Marine squads though, kill a few and kidnap the Sgt.

They also have Rending, so they can damage heavier vehicles too and it's fairly easy to get Furious Charge, which makes them S6.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:40

Regarding the Huskblade:
Fleshbane makes sense and is something I would definitely give it. However, Lethal Dose doesn't really fit the fluff (it's not a weapon that delivers poison/venom), and I'm not sure why you'd nerf it to that from the flat Instant Death it currently has other than to balance out the increase in AP value, which is not something I'm sure I agree with. I can understand the desire to make it AP2 given our lack of AP2 weaponry, but the feature of the Huskblade is that it evaporates moisture, leaving living matter desiccated to the point that blows away in a breeze, even from the tiniest scratch, not that it carves through anything.

I think a more appropriate profile would be Fleshbane, Instant Death, AP3. Yes, that means it cuts through less, but when it does, it takes them out completely and that's the point of the Huskblade.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:44

@Erebus wrote:
I think a more appropriate profile would be Fleshbane, Instant Death, AP3. Yes, that means it cuts through less, but when it does, it takes them out completely and that's the point of the Huskblade.

The issue with that is that it makes it virtually worthless against just about any target you'd actually want ID against - the vast majority of which are protected by 2+ saves.

It's a bit like having of having AP1 on a weapon that can't penetrate vehicles.

I'd rather have AP2 and ID, and reduce the Fleshbane aspect.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:45

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Imateria wrote:
Not at all convinced about Skyswarm, I mean we're talking about a squad of S4 guys trying to glance the rear armour of a flyer on 6's. Not impossible but I wouldn't count on it for anything but rare situations.

I'd defintiely take a squad of 5 and throw them at Space Marine squads though, kill a few and kidnap the Sgt.

They also have Rending, so they can damage heavier vehicles too and it's fairly easy to get Furious Charge, which makes them S6.

Wouldn't they be S3 base, +1 for the glaive and +1 for the FC making them S5, or have I missed something from your rules?

I guess there's no problem in keeping the rule but I wouldn't use them in such a way myself unless I was out of options for dealing with flyers. I've tried to use Tyranid Raveners in a similar way before, using rending to take down vehicles, and they have 5 attacks each on the charge but even in squads of 6 getting enough 6's to do the job isn't something that can be relied on.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:56

@Imateria wrote:
Wouldn't they be S3 base, +1 for the glaive and +1 for the FC making them S5, or have I missed something from your rules?

I guess there's no problem in keeping the rule but I wouldn't use them in such a way myself unless I was out of options for dealing with flyers. I've tried to use Tyranid Raveners in a similar way before, using rending to take down vehicles, and they have 5 attacks each on the charge but even in squads of 6 getting enough 6's to do the job isn't something that can be relied on.  

Sorry, typo there. Should be S5. I think, certainly once they get FC, they become decent against light and medium vehicles, including flyers. Remember that most (not all) flyers are AV10 on the rear. A charging Hellion with FC has 3 attacks, hitting on 3+, glancing on 5+. Even a minimum size squad will do 3+ HP, which is enough for most vehicles.

@Erebus wrote:
Fleshbane makes sense and is something I would definitely give it. However, Lethal Dose doesn't really fit the fluff (it's not a weapon that delivers poison/venom), and I'm not sure why you'd nerf it to that from the flat Instant Death it currently has other than to balance out the increase in AP value, which is not something I'm sure I agree with. I can understand the desire to make it AP2 given our lack of AP2 weaponry, but the feature of the Huskblade is that it evaporates moisture, leaving living matter desiccated to the point that blows away in a breeze, even from the tiniest scratch, not that it carves through anything.

I think a more appropriate profile would be Fleshbane, Instant Death, AP3. Yes, that means it cuts through less, but when it does, it takes them out completely and that's the point of the Huskblade

Lethal Dose is there because the mechanic (ID on a 6) fits. I can always change the name to something more suitable. Axe of Khorne has the same mechanic with a different name so it's not a problem. I agree that Fleshbane is fine. It does exactly what I want it to do, by negating the Archon's low Strength without increasing his ability to wreck vehicles. It also helps against GMCs. I mentioned in my earlier posts and Shredder has reiterated the point - AP2 is almost mandatory if you want to stand a chance against most of the big hitters in 40K these days. I would be very reluctant to drop it back down to AP3.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 13:58

@The Shredder wrote:
@Erebus wrote:
I think a more appropriate profile would be Fleshbane, Instant Death, AP3. Yes, that means it cuts through less, but when it does, it takes them out completely and that's the point of the Huskblade.

The issue with that is that it makes it virtually worthless against just about any target you'd actually want ID against - the vast majority of which are protected by 2+ saves.

It's a bit like having of having AP1 on a weapon that can't penetrate vehicles.

I'd rather have AP2 and ID, and reduce the Fleshbane aspect.

Exactly. If the Huskblade does not have AP2, that lowers the range of targets that is worth attacking with ID to MC (more or less). And its not like we have problems with those to begin with.

Also, Fleshbane on the Huskblade makes the Soul-Trap a dead upgrade.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 14:07

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
Also, Fleshbane on the Huskblade makes the Soul-Trap a dead upgrade.

That's why I've switched to an Artefact, so that any (one) IC can get it. I think it's much more useful on another character than it is on an Archon with Huskblade.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 14:11

If it's going to be an artefact, would it be worth expanding it's abilities?

Someone suggested earlier the possibility of trading strength to regain lost wounds or such.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 14:21

@The Shredder wrote:
The issue with that is that it makes it virtually worthless against just about any target you'd actually want ID against - the vast majority of which are protected by 2+ saves.
Such as what, named ICs like Belial and Zahndrekh? Genuine question - I'm not as familiar with every other codex as a DE player really needs to be.
It works against equivalent generic ICs and MCs. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy with more AP2 weaponry, I'm just not sure it should be.

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Lethal Dose is there because the mechanic (ID on a 6) fits.
Personally, I think flat ID fits better (my dice rolls may also influence my opinion). Have you run the numbers comparing ID and Lethal Dose? I'm curious to see which is statistically better.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 14:30

@Erebus wrote:

Such as what, named ICs like Belial and Zahndrekh? Genuine question - I'm not as familiar with every other codex as a DE player really needs to be.

Named characters, generic characters, MCs, many 2-wound models.

@Erebus wrote:
It works against equivalent generic ICs and MCs.

Unfortunately not. Many generic ICs can easily buy 2+ armour saves (or even come with them).

Then you have MCs with 2+ saves like the Riptide and Dreadknight.

Bear in mind, it's also about characters/MCs you'd actually want ID against. Sure, an AP3 Huskblade can kill a carnifex... but I can easily do that by torrenting it with poison from 36" away and not risking my Archon in the process.

What you want ID against is stuff like the Bike Chapter Master with T5, 4 wounds, a 2+/3++ FNP 4+, IWND.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 14:57

@The Shredder wrote:
If it's going to be an artefact, would it be worth expanding it's abilities?

Someone suggested earlier the possibility of trading strength to regain lost wounds or such.

I'll have a think about that but at the moment it's a cheap and cheerful artefact that can provide a decent boost to characters if you want to risk them in challenges. I also don't want to get into too much record keeping.

@Erebus wrote:
Personally, I think flat ID fits better (my dice rolls may also influence my opinion). Have you run the numbers comparing ID and Lethal Dose? I'm curious to see which is statistically better.

ID is indisputably better but I would need to increase the points cost to make it permanent ID rather than just on a 6. Combined with AP2 and Fleshbane, I'm really not sure what the correct value of that is but it's a lot!

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:00

I don't know if this is at all possible, but I've always thought it was a shame we couldn't choose The Duke's weapon (which was poison 2+ and AP2 if it rolled a 5+ to-wound). Might be nice as a cheap (10-15pt) option.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:05

@The Shredder wrote:
I don't know if this is at all possible, but I've always thought it was a shame we couldn't choose The Duke's weapon (which was poison 2+ and AP2 if it rolled a 5+ to-wound). Might be nice as a cheap (10-15pt) option.

Could add it as an Artefact. Bit or a poor man's Huskblade but still decent.

The Serpent's Bite - This pair of deadly weapons count as two poisoned weapons (2+). Any To Wound rolls of 5+ made with these weapons ignore armour saves...15 pts

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:09

Honestly, it's probably a relic of when the Venom Blade was (for good reason) just 5pts.

Then you could get away with it being 10pts (still half the cost of an agoniser in 5th). Now, as you've already alluded to, there isn't enough difference between its cost and that of other, more reliable weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:21

@Count Adhemar wrote:
ID is indisputably better
Yeah, I just re-read Lethal Dose. For some reason, I was thinking it was ID with no saves.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:26

Venom Blade is currently 10 points in my codex so 15 for the Serpent's Bite seems okay. There are 3 similar weapons:

Venom Blade - Poisoned (2+), Lethal Dose...10 pts
Shaimeshi Blade - Poisoned (2+), Lethal Dose, Rending...not available for purchase (Lhameans only)
Serpent's Bite - Poisoned (2+), +1A, AP2 on 5+...15 pts

Hmmm, now I'm thinking of more changes! How about dropping Lethal Dose from the Venom Blade and making it 5 points (same as 5e version). Lhameans get standard Venom Blades in place of Shaimeshii Blade but a new ability that gives Lethal Dose to any poison weapons in their unit. Serpent's Bite stays as above but at 10 points.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:29

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Hmmm, now I'm thinking of more changes! How about dropping Lethal Dose from the Venom Blade and making it 5 points (same as 5e version). Lhameans get standard Venom Blades in place of Shaimeshii Blade but a new ability that gives Lethal Dose to any poison weapons in their unit. Serpent's Bite stays as above but at 10 points.

I think those would be good changes. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:36

@The Shredder wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:

Hmmm, now I'm thinking of more changes! How about dropping Lethal Dose from the Venom Blade and making it 5 points (same as 5e version). Lhameans get standard Venom Blades in place of Shaimeshii Blade but a new ability that gives Lethal Dose to any poison weapons in their unit. Serpent's Bite stays as above but at 10 points.

I think those would be good changes. Smile

Do you think the Lhamean might need a points increase? 10 points seems pretty cheap. I'm just trying to think how badly it could be abused by attaching an IC to a Court? Nothing really leaps out as particularly abusive. Probably most effective when teamed with Sslyth for Shardcarbine shenanigans. Lhamean + 9 Sslyth in a Splinter Racked Raider Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:45

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Do you think the Lhamean might need a points increase? 10 points seems pretty cheap. I'm just trying to think how badly it could be abused by attaching an IC to a Court? Nothing really leaps out as particularly abusive. Probably most effective when teamed with Sslyth for Shardcarbine shenanigans. Lhamean + 9 Sslyth in a Splinter Racked Raider Smile

Well, assuming Night Shields on the Raider, that squad is 320pts. So, even if you put the Lhamaean's cost up to 15pts, it'll have a negligible impact on the overall cost.

Also, even with that super-expensive squad and rerolls, you're still only averaging four 6s. Doesn't seem to strong, considering the points.

Another possibility though would be to have each Lhamaean give her own weapon Lethal Dose, as well as that of a single character in your army. But, that might be a pain in terms of bookkeeping.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 15:55

A further option is another throwback to the Duke - increasing the poison value of all weapons by 1, so 4+ becomes 3+ etc. Quick Mathhammer:

Lethal Dose: 9 Sslyth, Lhamean, Raider with Splinter Racks - 28 shots, 24.88 hits, 12.44 wounds (incl 4.15 Lethal)
Poison 3+: 9 Sslyth, Lhamean, Raider with Splinter Racks - 28 shots, 24.88 hits, 16.59 wounds

Lethal Dose obviously would be better against multi-wound models but 3+ poison would be better against anything else. I think I actually prefer the Lethal Dose version though.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 16 2016, 20:56

@Count Adhemar wrote:
A further option is another throwback to the Duke - increasing the poison value of all weapons by 1, so 4+ becomes 3+ etc.


I think this is more consistent that lethal dose shooting. Otherwise, a T3 model is as exactly as susceptible to a lasgun shot as he is to an upgraded high tech Shardcarbine.

Have you considered a mechanism that helps splinter weapons wound GCs? Maybe they could simply provide a boost to that aswell ie a 5+ to wound rather than 6+.

I wonder if they could be unlock a poison upgrade for Kabalite Warriors.. If you have at least one Lhamean model in your army, any Kabalite Warrior or Kabalite Trueborn unit may pay 1?/2? point(s) to increase their poison to 3+/5+, where 5+ is used for GCs.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 17 2016, 11:23

The Lethal Dose version of the Lhamean actually helps quite a lot against GMCs in that any rolls that actually wound are also Instant Death, negating their FNP and inflicting d3 wounds on a failed armour save.

Also, don't forget that darklight weapons are pretty decent against GMCs (I guess we're talking about Wraithknights here) and we also have Str D weapons on Voidravens, which would be pretty nasty against Wraithknights.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 17 2016, 11:44

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Also, don't forget that darklight weapons are pretty decent against GMCs

Only if they're getting 2 shots apiece. Otherwise they're horribly inefficient when they're wounding on 4s and the model still gets FNP (plus any cover/invulnerable save it might have). I mean, it only takes 27 shots to kill a WK, but that's still over a thousand points of Ravagers (and that's assuming the WK has no cover or invulnerable). Two shots help, but they're still not good anti-GC weapons by any stretch.

Hell, even with 2 shots, good luck taking down the Tau Supremacy armour in any reasonable time frame. It takes an average of 135 darklight shots to kill the thing.
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