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 Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 18:53

The Strange Dark One wrote:

I could also see how Strength could be used as currency. So, you could remove 2 from your strength to restore a wound (or increase your toughness).

Just to say that I really love this idea. Twisted Evil

The Red King wrote:
They have a plus one to cover saves right?  Which will stack with night fight for a permenant +2 to cover saves.

Where are they getting +1 to cover saves from? I can't see that rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 23:10

The Shredder wrote:
The Strange Dark One wrote:

I could also see how Strength could be used as currency. So, you could remove 2 from your strength to restore a wound (or increase your toughness).

Just to say that I really love this idea. Twisted Evil

The Red King wrote:
They have a plus one to cover saves right?  Which will stack with night fight for a permenant +2 to cover saves.

Where are they getting +1 to cover saves from? I can't see that rule.
I think he's been referring to the Warlord Trait that extends Night Fighting for the full game and gives Shrouded instead of Stealth.



A very nice homebrew overall and along similar lines to changes I was thinking that I would make given the chance as well. A few thoughts:

I like the PfP change, personally though I'd have it so that you gain each army wide buff for every unit wiped out rather than for each unsaved wound caused, makes for easier book keeping.

No change to the Demiklaives? Presently we're paying 15pts to loose +1S and AP2 which is completely dreadful. I'd personally change the Klaive to +2S, AP2 Two Handed and give the DK's secondary profile +1S, AP2 Specialist Weapon, maybe reduce it down to 10pts as well. Maybe make it available to all Incubi rather than just the Klaivex as well. Would make Drazhar S7 with Furios Charge! I'd also change the Archite Glaive to +2S as well, I see it as the Wyches version of the Klaive anyway.

Count me in as one of those that thinks the Hellion Skyboard (and Beastmaster Skyboard a well, lets remember they are different) should gain Jink. I'd also thought about the Hellglaive being similar to a Power Lance with a +2/+1S, AP3/AP4 profile. Add this to their movement changes mentioned above and they should probably be moved back to their current point costs.

Dark Scythes. I dislike them for the same reason I dislike small blast templates on any BS4 platform, they miss more often than an assault weapon would. So how about making them 36", Heavy 2, Lance Twin Linked and an upgrade option for the Ravager and Razorwing, maybe 5pts more per weapon over the standard Dark Lance.

Also, why not give the Archon the option to take Scourge Wings and the Succubus Beastmaster Skyboards as well as the currently suggest Hellion board and jetbike.

Skyfire was mentioned as a prblem, and Scourges were suggested as the fix but giving them the ability to make close combat attacks agaisnt flyers doesn't seem to have much point, they're definitely a shooty unit and not a staby unit. So How about anyone with Scourge Wings have the option to use the Skyfire and Intercetper rules if they did not move in the previous movement phase.

Finally, one for the Cronos, how about making it's FnP bubble extend by 1" for every unsaved wound it causes and giving it A5. The expanding bubble works with the fluff and the A5 represents all those tentacle sit's got.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 23:24

The Red King wrote:
Don't you think a 75% chance of game long shrouded is a little strong? 2+ jink saves forever.

Honestly? No I don't. The amount of Ignores Cover out there these days is frankly ridiculous so it's not exactly a guarantee of safety and Jink comes at the cost of snap firing the following turn. About the only vehicle we have that would be willing to do that is the Raider. Everything else now loses too much to want to jink constantly. So in reality we're looking at a 5+ cover save that many units, and some entire armies, completely ignore.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 06:59

Maybe just bring back the Baron? They were perfectly fine with him and extra atack. And maybe this rule from the news section - HtR on iniatiative step.

They really need offensive and defensive grenades - they cant rely on hitting last in combat. Too squishy.

I dont think they should be able to atack flyers, they are after all, significantly slower then them and doesnt really have way to change altitude really fast. Not to mention that they lack a weaponry to do so, atacking airplane with basically sword is silly.

I think they should be chepar, and nowhere near Aspect Warrior level. They are disposable trash, and probably should be rough and savage and good at it.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 09:55

Count Adhemar wrote:
The Red King wrote:
Don't you think a 75% chance of game long shrouded is a little strong? 2+ jink saves forever.

Honestly? No I don't. The amount of Ignores Cover out there these days is frankly ridiculous so it's not exactly a guarantee of safety and Jink comes at the cost of snap firing the following turn. About the only vehicle we have that would be willing to do that is the Raider. Everything else now loses too much to want to jink constantly. So in reality we're looking at a 5+ cover save that many units, and some entire armies, completely ignore.

Also, DAs can already get rerollable 2+ Jink saves.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 12:09

Count Adhemar wrote:
hydranixx wrote:
The ability to move someone into reserve, is nothing short of fantastic. Move their 600 point unit into reserves on turn 3, effectively removing it from the game.

That is 100% intentional. We have no death star of our own and no real ability to contend with enemy death stars other than feeding them units to eat, which is a delaying tactic at best and can backfire pretty easily. Including Vect in your army might make people think twice about employing such a death star, knowing that it can be temporarily out of the game at any time.

I do however concede that there should probably be some sort of mechanism to allow for the ability to fail. It's not a psychic power so DtW is out and I don't really want to allow the opponent to make any sort of stat check as that would make certain types of unit effectively immune. I'm thinking perhaps Vect and the target unit each roll D6 and add their Leadership. If Vect equals or beats the target then the ability works. This also allows for clever use of Ld penalties to boost Vect's chances. What do you think?

I think that's an excellent idea.

A step in the right direction at any rate. It makes it less certain, and less final. Vehicles counts as automatically Ld 10 for the purposes of the roll off?

For his exorbitant price tag, I wonder if its a little too unreliable though. Ideally, we want at least about a ~70% - 80% chance to get it. Without Freakshow list additions, we can't really reliably nuke something with solid leadership (read: the targets we NEED to remove).

Since it's his big show stopper special rule, and we only get one shot at it, perhaps there's some other way to buff our chances slightly. He's pretty ruthless, so I'd imagine he'd plan to sacrifice a lot to see a plan come to fruition.

Here's some ideas to play with.

Firstly there's buffs you can acquire by performing things:

- The target enemy unit is from the Eldar faction or Dark Eldar faction: +1
- Detract d3 from Vect's WS, BS and I (maybe also Ld) for the rest of the game: +1
- Vect misses out on movement/shooting etc for the turn he wishes to use it: +1
- Vect's unit loses the PfP special rule: +1
- Spend 5 PfP points from your pool acquired earlier this game: +1

Secondly debuffs your opponent can perform, or debuffs from Vect being derpy earlier in the game (tilting his judgement)

- For each wound Vect has lost this game: -1
- For each moral test Vect has failed this game: -1
- If you attempted to seize the initiative this game and failed: -1
- If your opponent successfully seized the initiative from you: -1
- The target enemy unit chooses to miss out on movement/shooting etc for the turn: -1

I'm not really certain how any of them would play out. Or if any should. I'm sure if you want to use any, you could configure them into some better way than I.

Maybe it makes it unnecessarily complex, but then again, if there was EVER a character to be that way, it's Vect for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 14:21

Azdrubael wrote:
Maybe just bring back the Baron? They were perfectly fine with him and extra atack. And maybe this rule from the news section - HtR on iniatiative step.

To be honest they were pretty poor even with the Baron and the extra attack. The Baron was seen far more often with Eldar armies than he was with Dark Eldar. For some reason those Craftworld types just don't seem to be able to manage without someone from Commorragh to hold their delicate little hands!

Quote :
They really need offensive and defensive grenades - they cant rely on hitting last in combat. Too squishy.

I don't often agree with GW on rules design but on this one I do. If you're just going to hand out grenades to every assault unit then you might as well get rid of the initiative penalty for charging into terrain. I've given us other methods of achieving the same effect as grenades (PFG and TFG) but they will take a bit of planning and coordination to use effectively

Quote :
I dont think they should be able to atack flyers, they are after all, significantly slower then them and doesnt really have way to change altitude really fast. Not to mention that they lack a weaponry to do so, atacking airplane with basically sword is silly.

I think they should be chepar, and nowhere near Aspect Warrior level. They are disposable trash, and probably should be rough and savage and good at it.

I wanted to give them a niche within our army and I wanted us to have options against flyers. This seemed a more interesting solution than just making them cannon fodder and giving Scourges the Skyfire rule Smile This way, Scourges retain their own use, Hellions gain versatility and the army gains another option that is pretty unique in 40k.

Imateria wrote:
No change to the Demiklaives?

Good point. I'd missed those on my initial trawl through the codex. I've dropped them to 5 points and given the dual blade profile Shred

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 14:25

Count Adhemar wrote:

I don't often agree with GW on rules design but on this one I do. If you're just going to hand out grenades to every assault unit then you might as well get rid of the initiative penalty for charging into terrain.

Good. Let's do that.

It should never have been an initiative penalty in the first place, as that hits some armies really hard (read: ours) whilst barely affecting others ("My Necrons are striking last instead of at I2. Oh no." Rolling Eyes ).
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 14:28

I might well agree with that but I'm not rewriting the whole bloody rulebook! Not just yet at least...

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 14:30

Count Adhemar wrote:
I might well agree with that but I'm not rewriting the whole bloody rulebook! Not just yet at least...

No, but I don't see the point in being stingy with assault grenades (it's not like GW hold back on giving them to any other army).

If it results in that rule being removed or changed into something more reasonable/universal, even better.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure daemons get many grenades. So, let's amend that to 'it's not like GW hold back when giving  grenades to any non-evil army'. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 15:09

The Strange Dark One wrote:
I actually came to think about our remaining HQs and honstly, I don't see why I should take a Succubus anymore or a Haemonculus.

I recently changed the Haemonculus. He is intended to be a supporting HQ and he now adds +1 to his unit's FNP ability. You can also combine this with a nearby Cronos to get FNP(3+). He also has access to the Ossefactor now if you want a more ranged role for him. He's cheap(ish) and I can definitely see him being taken as a second HQ choice to buff a particular unit.

I kind of see what you're saying about the Succubus though. With the changes to the Huskblade, an Archon can do almost anything she can and is much better protected. So the question becomes do I buff the Succubus or nerf the Archon? Or both? Something to think about, for sure.

Quote :
I really like the idea of a AP2, Fleshbane, Lethal Dose weapon and was among those who suggested it, but with A4, I7 and the already very good Labyrinthine Cunning I see that as a bit too much compared to the other HQs.

Moreover, low strength is not a problem anymore, why should anybody take a Soul-Trap?

I got a few ideas how those things could be balanced out.

So, what if the Archon still only had a AP2, ID Huskblade (maybe +1s) but at a much lower price? As we know, it won't do much on its own due to S3 but what if it could be taken at 15pts a piece?

But to change that, I'd simply suggest the old Soul-Trap. Once an Archon kills an enemy, make a test and if he succeeds he get's +1 S.

I could also see how Strength could be used as currency. So, you could remove 2 from your strength to restore a wound (or increase your toughness).

It would still give us something unique and a high risk-reward factor.
Put the Archon into a potent melee squad, let him gain some strength and then proceed to the stronger targets to kill them in one blow.

I'll have a good look at these suggestions. Thanks.

Quote :
As I said, I love the idea of AP2, Fleshbane, Lethal Dose weapon and when I imagine that there comes one piece of wargear into my mind: The Ichor Injector.
So, what if the Ichor Injector would be AP2 and could be taken by a Haemonculus?

I think that could really be a reason to get a Haemonculus and it wouldn't be as nearly as strong with just A3, WS5 and I5. But the T4 would make the wearer much more durable.
And since the Haemonculus also cannot get a 2++ and is less killy with it than an Archon, you might even charge it at a lower price (like 20/25pts?).

Now imagine a Haemonculus running around with a Grotesquerie and an AP2 Ichor Injector...

The Ichor Injector is HUGE! I'm not sure I can see that on a Haemonculus but I'll have a think about it.

Quote :
Edit: Btw. seeing that Taloi can take Twin-Linked Haywire Blasters, shouldn't Wracks be able to do so too? It could give them more utility in a Coven-only list and provide at least basic protection against AV when playing a coven heavy army.

I have no idea why a) Taloi are virtually the only unit in our army with twin-linked weapons and b) why they have Haywire Blasters. But I don't really see Wracks as a ranged unit and certainly not an AT unit. They're all about pain and suffering, not short-circuiting!

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 15:28

One random thing to consider: Prior to the release of the 7th edition DE dex, there was a WD mini-game involving wracks, and IIRC they had the option for power mauls, which got my hopes up... which were then dashed with the actual dex hit. There are power mauls (or weapons that look like them) modeled on several of the wrack models, so maybe throw those in as an upgrade option (maybe on a 1 per 5 model or maybe even 1 per 3 model basis)?
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 15:32

krayd wrote:
One random thing to consider: Prior to the release of the 7th edition DE dex, there was a WD mini-game involving wracks, and IIRC they had the option for power mauls, which got my hopes up... which were then dashed with the actual dex hit. There are power mauls (or weapons that look like them) modeled on several of the wrack models, so maybe throw those in as an upgrade option (maybe on a 1 per 5 model or maybe even 1 per 3 model basis)?

Oh yes! It wasn't even just the mini-game. GW flat out lied in WD about Wracks being able to take them. I'll add those in!

On the subject of weaponry, Daemons just got this:

* Skullreaver: 30pts. S User, AP2, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Anathema (To Hit rolls of 6 are Strength D!!!).

I suddenly feel like buffing my version of the Huskblade!

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 15:39

For the Huskblade, how about 25pts S: User, AP2, Instant Death, Shred.

Count Adhemar wrote:

I kind of see what you're saying about the Succubus though. With the changes to the Huskblade, an Archon can do almost anything she can and is much better protected. So the question becomes do I buff the Succubus or nerf the Archon? Or both? Something to think about, for sure.

A few possibilities:

- You could lower her cost a bit so that she's very much a cheap HQ option.

- You could try and make her even more killy (e.g. giving her a weapon like the Scorpion Claw or letting her reroll hits/wounds in a challenge). So, she'd be more fragile than the Archon, but also able to dice infantry and possibly even HQs.

- I know I'll get no end of hate for suggesting this, but you could have the Archon with options for Wings/Skyboard, and give the Succubus the only Jetbike option.

Don't know if these are any good, but they're just off the top of my head.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 15:43

The Shredder wrote:
For the Huskblade, how about 25pts S: User, AP2, Instant Death, Shred.

Count Adhemar wrote:

I kind of see what you're saying about the Succubus though. With the changes to the Huskblade, an Archon can do almost anything she can and is much better protected. So the question becomes do I buff the Succubus or nerf the Archon? Or both? Something to think about, for sure.

A few possibilities:

- You could lower her cost a bit so that she's very much a cheap HQ option.

- You could try and make her even more killy (e.g. giving her a weapon like the Scorpion Claw or letting her reroll hits/wounds in a challenge). So, she'd be more fragile than the Archon, but also able to dice infantry and possibly even HQs.

- I know I'll get no end of hate for suggesting this, but you could have the Archon with options for Wings/Skyboard, and give the Succubus the only Jetbike option.

Don't know if these are any good, but they're just off the top of my head.

Perhaps the Succubus should have precision strikes, so she can basically dance into close combat and stab whoever she wants, even if they refuse a challenge?
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 16:36

I'll run some numbers to see how the Succubus performs in combat vs how the Archon does. I'm tempted to get rid of the soul trap and roll it into the Succubus with some sort of ability that increases her Strength or Attacks for each model she kills.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 16:58

I have to say, losing Soul Trap on the Archon would make me sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 17:33

Count Adhemar wrote:
The Ichor Injector is HUGE! I'm not sure I can see that on a Haemonculus but I'll have a think about it.

I grant you that, but I was more looking at it from a gameplay perspective. I am sure our master torture scientists geniouses can come up with a miniature version or bio-engineer themselves so carrying one of them is no issue Wink

Count Adhemar wrote:
The Strange Dark One wrote:
Edit: Btw. seeing that Taloi can take Twin-Linked Haywire Blasters, shouldn't Wracks be able to do so too? It could give them more utility in a Coven-only list and provide at least basic protection against AV when playing a coven heavy army.

I have no idea why a) Taloi are virtually the only unit in our army with twin-linked weapons and b) why they have Haywire Blasters. But I don't really see Wracks as a ranged unit and certainly not an AT unit. They're all about pain and suffering, not short-circuiting!

True, true.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 20:17

Quote :
Skullreaver: 30pts. S User, AP2, Melee, Specialist Weapon, Anathema (To Hit rolls of 6 are Strength D!!!).

The reason for the rather low point costs is that it is only available for DP and Thirster which actually only get the chance of Strength D out of it. And even there only a 6 to wound makes a big difference as most stuff is wounded on a 2+ anyways.
To add insult to injury a thirster with this item is 5 points more expensive than the Thirster with the D axe.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 20:25

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
To add insult to injury a thirster with this item is 5 points more expensive than the Thirster with the D axe.

The difference is that the D axe strikes at I1, whereas this sword strikes at I9. It's faster than a damn Succubus.

That's 8 attacks on the charge at WS10 and I9. On average, at least one of them will be Strength D, and the rest are still S6 AP2.

It can potentially take out virtually anything in the game - including stuff like IKs and Wraithknights - before they even get to swing.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 21:28

Quote :
That's 8 attacks on the charge at WS10 and I9. On average, at least one of them will be Strength D, and the rest are still S6 AP2

The sword does not change his normal attacks, all it does is giving a chance for a roll on the d-table.
So no, you are probably not gonna kill IK and WK as after your D result you still need a 6 to wound the WK and have no chance to damage the IK (AV13). To kill them off before they strike you would need 3 rolls of 6 in a row.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 22:26

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

The sword does not change his normal attacks, all it does is giving a chance for a roll on the d-table.

Yes, but unlike the axe it doesn't reduce his initiative.

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

So no, you are probably not gonna kill IK and WK as after your D result you still need a 6 to wound the WK and have no chance to damage the IK (AV13).

Unless you roll a 6 on the D table. In which case the IK/Wraithknight is dead.

And, even if you don't, most of the time you're still going to be doing d3 wounds for each 6 rolled to-hit.

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
To kill them off before they strike you would need 3 rolls of 6 in a row.

Two. You need one (or more) 6s to hit, then another 6 on the D table. With 8 attacks on the charge, that's a 2/9 chance.

Granted, that doesn't sound great. Until you remember that this is a 2/9 chance to kill a 400-500pt model (the IK) or a 300pt model that's worth about 500pts (the WK) with a single swing that strikes before those models get to attack and negate any possible defence.

And, these are the absolute extreme end of targets.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 22:55

Quote :
Unless you roll a 6 on the D table. In which case the IK/Wraithknight is dead.

Which needs a 6 to hit and a 6 on the table... which is what? 2,77% ?

Quote :
Granted, that doesn't sound great. Until you remember that this is a 2/9 chance to kill a 400-500pt model (the IK) or a 300pt model that's worth about 500pts (the WK) with a single swing that strikes before those models get to attack and negate any possible defence.

Your chance is not 2/9. Your chance for a D attack to happen is 2/9. The chance to actually finish it is way lower.
And even then you are throwing a 300 points model at it.

Striking with I1 is not that bad if you have WS10 and an invul save that can be upped by PSI.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Thu Feb 11 2016, 23:08

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Which needs a 6 to hit and a 6 on the table... which is what? 2,77% ?

Your chance is not 2/9. Your chance for a D attack to happen is 2/9. The chance to actually finish it is way lower.

The chance per attack is 1/36, but you have 8 attacks to get it. 8/36 = 2/9

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

And even then you are throwing a 300 points model at it.

But, again, this is a chance for a 280pt model to kill a 300-500pt model in one hit before it even gets to strike back.

And, this is just the chance of killing it outright. There's still the possibility of taking off wounds/hps with the 2-5 result on the D table (or, in the case of the WK, with its normal attacks).

Moreover, these are about as tough as targets get. Against anything else you're not relying on that D hit to kill them, but it can still be very useful (especially against tough characters).

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Striking with I1 is not that bad if you have WS10 and an invul save that can be upped by PSI.
 

PSI?

Regardless, I've seen quite a lot of weak units still manage to put wounds on a bloodthirster. After all, it's only as tough as a carnifex in terms of toughness and armour (albeit with better WS and an invulnerable save). Granted, it's rare for a unit to do more than 1 wound before being minced, but those wounds add up (especially when combined with the wounds it's taking outside of combat).


Also, we're going a bit off-topic here. Do you want to continue this discussion via pm? tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Sun Feb 14 2016, 21:23

Count Adhemar wrote:
The Ichor Injector is HUGE! I'm not sure I can see that on a Haemonculus but I'll have a think about it.

I just remembered that Urien Rakarth has an Ichor Injector by default as well. So, you might want to consider this too.
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