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 Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 02:24

@doriii wrote:

2. fleshbane on the huskblade and rending ? Wink for 35pts thats fair right Very Happy

This would be insanely strong. The weapon seems "good", but the platform it comes from would make it ridiculously potent:

This is a model with base 4 attacks, charging for 6 total with a pistol, with super high WS and I. From PfP, he also has access to furious charge, crusader, rage etc. From other wargear, he's sitting on a 2++ save almost by default.

That simple build (Archon w/ Huskblade and Shadowfield) would be 135 points and could reliably kill any other model with a toughness value in the game in a turn or two of combat.

Maybe +1 strength and AP2 is enough of a buff to stay at 35 points. Or else make it AP2 at the price of 20-25 points total.


I like all the concepts you've explored here, Count Adhemar. I think the changes to both Aerial Assault and Dark Lances would make Ravagers unbelievably strong. Move and flat out 30" total and still fire 4 regular BS Dark Lances, and then snapfire 2 more shots?

I think it should be like the old Aerial Assault rule, but in a turn you move flat out, a single weapon may be fired from any point you moved over in your flat out move, at full BS.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 03:37

This is the first fandex that has seemed reasonable enough that I'd play against it.

I wish my local group didn't think DE were overpowered. I'd love to use this.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 07:08

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I'm off on a course today so can't reply fully until tonight or tomorrow but I'll certainly think about all the ideas you guys have come up with.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 10:00

@hydranixx wrote:

This would be insanely strong. The weapon seems "good", but the platform it comes from would make it ridiculously potent:

This is a model with base 4 attacks, charging for 6 total with a pistol, with super high WS and I. From PfP, he also has access to furious charge, crusader, rage etc. From other wargear, he's sitting on a 2++ save almost by default.

Furious Charge doesn't help him. Nor does Crusader.

He's sitting on a 2++ save, but he's only T3. Anything with S6 has ID against him.

@hydranixx wrote:
That simple build (Archon w/ Huskblade and Shadowfield) would be 135 points and could reliably kill any other model with a toughness value in the game in a turn or two of combat.

I think you're seriously overestimating just how tough a lot of other HQs are.

@hydranixx wrote:

Maybe +1 strength and AP2 is enough of a buff to stay at 35 points. Or else make it AP2 at the price of 20-25 points total.

I agree that Fleshbane is probably too much, but +1S AP2 isn't remotely enough for it to cost 35pts. Or even 30pts. It just isn't worth more than a power fist - which can still ID most infantry (as well as wounding them on 2s), but can also punch vehicles to death.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 10:22

I think the wound breaks on the pfp chart combined with the whole 'even if saved' rules make this way to good. Inflicting so few wounds to get those buffs is easy with the force now!

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 12:30

@hydranixx wrote:
@doriii wrote:

2. fleshbane on the huskblade and rending ? Wink for 35pts thats fair right Very Happy

This would be insanely strong. The weapon seems "good", but the platform it comes from would make it ridiculously potent:

This is a model with base 4 attacks, charging for 6 total with a pistol, with super high WS and I. From PfP, he also has access to furious charge, crusader, rage etc. From other wargear, he's sitting on a 2++ save almost by default.

That simple build (Archon w/ Huskblade and Shadowfield) would be 135 points and could reliably kill any other model with a toughness value in the game in a turn or two of combat.

Maybe +1 strength and AP2 is enough of a buff to stay at 35 points. Or else make it AP2 at the price of 20-25 points total.


I like all the concepts you've explored here, Count Adhemar. I think the changes to both Aerial Assault and Dark Lances would make Ravagers unbelievably strong. Move and flat out 30" total and still fire 4 regular BS Dark Lances, and then snapfire 2 more shots?

I think it should be like the old Aerial Assault rule, but in a turn you move flat out, a single weapon may be fired from any point you moved over in your flat out move, at full BS.

i dont think its near insane i think it just puts a cannon in our glass cardboard. besides a huskblade is supposed to cut through everything like hot butter
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 16:23

I find it hard to believe I am the first to dissent on this matter but vect is way too strong. Specifically I mean his ability to put someone in reserves. A power that warrants warp charge 3 and involves saves (warp maze corsair power). Also I think the ability to force night fight all game in 50% of games giving the entire army effective shrouded is too much, perhaps take some ideas from heresy era night lords who have increased movement and initiatives during night fight, as permanent stealth is not too strong. Also what is the interaction between the thing that allows you to force night fight turn 1 and the thing that allows you to make it might fight all game if it is turn 1?

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 21:22

I did wonder if anyone would comment on Vect. Personally I don't agree that he's too strong, bearing in mind he's 300 points for a T3 model (albeit with a decent save). He costs more than a Wraithknight! I mentioned in another thread in which he was discussed that he shouldn't be significantly tougher than a normal Archon in terms of melee ability but in tactical and strategic terms he should make Marneus Calgar look like the actual Papa Smurf. I believe this ability helps to accomplish that and the psychic power you mention can be done every turn whereas Vect is only once per game, albeit with guaranteed success. It's a strong ability, there's no denying it, but this is Vect we're talking about here! Facing him in battle should be like chasing shadows, never knowing if you're countering his plan or falling into his trap.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Tue Feb 09 2016, 23:30

@doriii wrote:

i dont think its near insane i think it just puts a cannon in our glass cardboard. besides a huskblade is supposed to cut through everything like hot butter

AP2 fleshbane with over 5 attacks, WS and I 7 seems insane to me. Just compare him to most regular HQ selections and what they can get for 135 points?

Almost anything for a similar points value will die to you before they get to strike due to ID. And even if they don't, maybe due to unlucky rolls on your part or a few invulnerable saves on theirs, you're still WS7 with a 2++, which is hardly an easy kill for when they get their attacks.

@The Shredder wrote:

I think you're seriously overestimating just how tough a lot of other HQs are.

I think you meant to write 'underestimating'?

But I don't think I am; most expensive characters worth a damn these days are T5 or higher - Warbosses/Captains on Bikes/Tau Commanders - so powerfists aren't really all that good against them. Some of them have options for immunity to ID too, even at T4 (Eldar phoenix lords come to mind)

@The Shredder wrote:

I agree that Fleshbane is probably too much, but +1S AP2 isn't remotely enough for it to cost 35pts. Or even 30pts. It just isn't worth more than a power fist - which can still ID most infantry (as well as wounding them on 2s), but can also punch vehicles to death.

So we can't scratch big vehicles, but I'm ok with that; the archon was never designed to maul Land Raiders in my mind. Especially with a weapon aimed at turning biological matter to dust.

I get what you're saying though. I think in a pinch, the addition of rending will help him take a few hull points off a transport. Or he can pack haywire nades.

I'd like to see us have fleshbane, and I think if it belonged anywhere, its on the huskblade, but coupled with AP2, Rending, ID and our great combat stats... And Labyrinthine Cunning as standard. What a steal the Archon would be. We would never see a Succubus or Haemonculus in any list lol.

It would be interesting to replace the ID rule on the huskblade with a rule that instead removes 2 wounds to any target who suffers an unsaved wound. Helps us get past Eternal Warrior too, but still without us one shotting 200+ point HQ choices with our little sword on a 2+.

As for Vect, Count, I think you've come up with a solid bunch of rules, but I think there's probably one too many in his profile.

The ability to move someone into reserve, is nothing short of fantastic. Move their 600 point unit into reserves on turn 3, effectively removing it from the game.
The reroll each turn is also very good. There's few other things in the game with access to 'any dice' rerolls, and most of them are once per game affairs.
He also gets easy mode initiative steals, access to a D strength blast which isn't even One-Use, and the ability to take any warlord trait in the game that you want... Not to mention his stats, and preferred enemy all

I think you could choose just 2-3 of the rules you've made for him, and he'd be a healthier addition to the homebrew. With so much at his fingertips, he's just such a good pick up even at his exorbitant price.

I think with 'only' the special rules for Preferred Enemy, Nothing Left To Chance, Master Tactician, Supreme Overlord and his access to Obsidian Orbs, he'd be a fantastic option, and could price somewhere in the realms of 200-240 pts, without being completely overwhelming.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 03:13

Give incubi a helm that makes them immune to over watch like a banshee mask AND give them grenades. also they should get a 5++ just cuz they should. No one can say this is OP when thunder hammer storm shields are around
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 06:29

@Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Give incubi a helm that makes them immune to over watch like a banshee mask AND give them grenades. also they should get a 5++ just cuz they should. No one can say this is OP when thunder hammer storm shields are around

Heck no - they are aspect warriors - samurai essentially. Why on earth should they get a 5++?

they are the original scorpion shrine essentially - giving them grenades or equivalent for the helm is fine but handing them the best options of 2 shrines plus a ++ save for no good reason is just silly

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 11:18

Just going through some of the suggestions here. More comments to follow but so far I have:

Added access to Haywire Blasters and Heat Lances to Kabalite Trueborn
Added the Ossefactor to the Tools of Torment wargear list (giving access to Acothysts and Haemonculi)
Modified the rules for Shadowfield to regen on a 4+ but only if you don't take any wounds in the previous turn
I’ve added Combat Drugs option to the Archon
Changed Master of Pain to +1FNP for the unit, which allows it to interact with the Cronos' ability and potentially get FNP (3+)


Thank you for all the feedback, good and bad!

@The Red King wrote:
Also what is the interaction between the thing that allows you to force night fight turn 1 and the thing that allows you to make it might fight all game if it is turn 1?

Night Terrors is an army-wide special rule so it applies all the time. I'll modify it so that DE has to be your primary detachment for it to apply. Labyrinthine Cunning, which Vect and all Archons have as long as they are the Warlord, allows you to re-roll the dice to see if Night Fighting is in effect on turn 1. So that's basically a 75% chance of permanent Night Fighting. The Realspace Raiders detachment gives automatic night fight, which Night Terrors would allow you to extend for the entire battle.

@hydranixx wrote:
The ability to move someone into reserve, is nothing short of fantastic. Move their 600 point unit into reserves on turn 3, effectively removing it from the game.

That is 100% intentional. We have no death star of our own and no real ability to contend with enemy death stars other than feeding them units to eat, which is a delaying tactic at best and can backfire pretty easily. Including Vect in your army might make people think twice about employing such a death star, knowing that it can be temporarily out of the game at any time.

I do however concede that there should probably be some sort of mechanism to allow for the ability to fail. It's not a psychic power so DtW is out and I don't really want to allow the opponent to make any sort of stat check as that would make certain types of unit effectively immune. I'm thinking perhaps Vect and the target unit each roll D6 and add their Leadership. If Vect equals or beats the target then the ability works. This also allows for clever use of Ld penalties to boost Vect's chances. What do you think?

I'm also going to add the Distort Scythe rule to his Obsidian Orbs, to tone them down a little.

@lotsofpeople - Huskblades seem to be a bit of a contentious issue. After some thought I think that Fleshbane, AP2 and Lethal Dose is reasonable. I don’t particularly want the Archon crushing vehicles so I’m not really tempted by Rending or strength increases. Fleshbane solves the Archon’s Strength issues nicely and also gives us a valuable tool against Wraithknights and other GMCs. The Archon isn’t likely to take out a Wraithknight single-handedly without a few lucky 6’s but will reliably take off a couple of wounds per turn as long as he doesn’t get Stomped out of existence or fail his Shadowfield save. I've brought it down to 30 points though.

@Leninade – I’ve taken a look at the Cronos. He should be buffing nearby units, which he does with his increased FNP ability but I’ve changed it to a maximum of 3+ FNP. I’ve also added Soulfright and Soul-tech to his ranged weapons and given him Independent Targeting so it may fire each of its weapons at a different target if desired (as you probably don’t want to be shooting the unit you are planning to charge!). At 150 points fully equipped I think he needs to do a bit more than the GW version. Now you put the Cronos at the front of your force and let him shoot anything he wants, regenerating wounds as he does so!
Independent Targeting – A model with this special rule may fire each of its weapons at a different target if desired and is not required to shoot at the same target as other models in its unit

@dorii – +1 Initiative is pretty useful for Wyches as they gain bonus attacks for each point of Init higher than their opponent. Not as useful for Reavers but we can’t please all the people all the time.

@Krayd – Skyfire isn’t an option I was able to cram in but the buffs to our own flyers do massively improve our AA ability. And nice idea about the letter campaign! I might come back to that once I’m done here!

@Massaen – Any suggestions on the progression for PfP? I suspect it will take some playtesting to hit the right point. 5 wound brackets might be too strong and allow progress too quickly but I also don’t want to go too long before any significant buffs arrive. Dark Eldar should strike fast! I wonder if the progression needs to start quickly and then slow down as it take more and more pain to reach those heady heights. I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it so the little got more and more...

So maybe start with 1-4 wounds, then 5, 6, etc for each step. That would make the table:
Power from Pain Table
Unsaved Wounds Bonus
1-4 Crusader
5-9 Feel No Pain
10-15 Furious Charge
16-22 Fearless
23-30 Preferred Enemy (all)
31-39 Rage
40+ Eternal Warrior

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 13:35

Quote :
@Krayd – Skyfire isn’t an option I was able to cram in but the buffs to our own flyers do massively improve our AA ability. And nice idea about the letter campaign! I might come back to that once I’m done here!

Scourges. There is no reason why they could not work similar to Swooping Hawks.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 14:31

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
@Krayd – Skyfire isn’t an option I was able to cram in but the buffs to our own flyers do massively improve our AA ability. And nice idea about the letter campaign! I might come back to that once I’m done here!

Scourges. There is no reason why they could not work similar to Swooping Hawks.

I don't just want them to be a copy/paste of Swooping Hawks but I might try to give them some sort of AA role.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:20

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
@Krayd – Skyfire isn’t an option I was able to cram in but the buffs to our own flyers do massively improve our AA ability. And nice idea about the letter campaign! I might come back to that once I’m done here!

Scourges. There is no reason why they could not work similar to Swooping Hawks.

I don't just want them to be a copy/paste of Swooping Hawks but I might try to give them some sort of AA role.

How about something like:

Birds of Prey - If a unit of Scourges is able to use its jump-packs to assault (i.e. it did not use them to move 12" in the movement phase), then it may charge zooming flyers and swooping flying monstrous creatures in the assault phase. Any assault carried out in this way works as it would in a normal assault on a vehicle or monstrous creature. However, regardless of which side wins the close combat, all remaining scourges must disengage from close combat and consolidate 1D6 inches after the fight subphase. If a flying monstrous creature took any wounds during the combat, then it must make a grounding test at the end of the assault phase. Any applicable morale tests are taken after the scourges make their consolidation move. Neither side may perform a sweeping advance.

To complement this, I would suggest allowing the entire unit the option to take haywire grenades (players who want to be stingy on points could opt out of the upgrade and still have a reasonable chance of hurting flyers with the scourges' plasma grenades)

Obviously, this wouldn't allow scourges to chase enemy flyers down from across the table, but they could be a threat to any enemy flyers that veer too close.


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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:26

I'm actually thinking about Hellions now. What do you think to this, in place of the original changes?

Hellions
+1A for Hellions and Helliarch
Remove close combat weapon
Hellglaive gains Rending
Stun Claw reverts to 5e rules (see Armoury)
Add Skyswarm to special rules
Skyswarm
Hellions take to the skies in vast numbers, flocking around their target and bringing it down in a whirl of deadly blades
A unit composed entirely of models with this special rule may declare charges against zooming flyers and swooping flying monstrous creatures. Charge distances are measured to the base of the model in the same way as charges against non-flying units. Combat is fought as normal but neither the Hellions nor the flyer/FMC can be locked in combat against each other. Unless killed/wrecked in melee or, in the case of FMCs, destroyed by Sweeping Advance, both the Hellions and the enemy flyer/FMC remain where they are and are free to simply move away in future turns

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:39

That's a nice start, but I think they need something else. As it is, they're vastly slower and vastly less durable than Reavers (no turbo boost, no assault move, no T4, no Jink etc.).

I think it would be nice if their skyboards got some sort of movement rule (e.g. being able t move 18" instead of 12"). Or else some sort of defence (so that you're not relying on T3 and 5+ armour to protect you).

I think Hellions have similar issues to IG Rough Riders. No matter what offensive stuff you give them (and yours are at least better than RRs in that department), they're still just T3 dudes with negligible saves and no transport. But then, I really don't know what the solution would be.

On a related note, it would be nice if there was actually a reason beyond pure aesthetics to take a skyboard over a jetbike on a character. Not that this problem is any way unique to us, with jump packs and wings being universally outclassed by bikes, but it's still something that bugs me.

Oh, one last thing - I think Hellions really need move through cover or skilled rider. Seems a bit nuts that they're basically forced to seek cover, but in doing so risk impaling themselves on a bramble.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:43

For consistency with other rules, you may want to force the Hellions to break away from BtB contact to 1" away from the enemy model at the end of the assault phase, to demonstrate in a consistent way, that they are not locked in close combat.

Perhaps hellions should get a 4+ invul save.. but only vs. shooting? They used to have a 5+ jink invul save in 3.5th edition. That way, they could have some sort of parity with wyches, who get their 4+ save in CC, while hellions get it vs. shooting. Note: this is *not* a jink save, so Hellions would still get to fire at full BS, and the save would still be good vs. 'ignores cover' weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:55

Move through cover seems pretty reasonable as they are supposed to be incredibly agile. Not sure quite how to boost their movement to keep up with flyers without just turning them into Swooping Hawks. How about letting them use their jump packs in the shooting phase to run 2d6" (with Fleet re-rolls). With the Soul Harvest special rule they can still assault after running and with Fleet they don't need to use their Jump Packs in the assault phase (unless they really need a S3 HoW attack).

So they can move 12" in the movement phase, ignoring terrain and auto-passing dangerous terrain tests. They then move 2d6" in the shooting phase with re-rolls from Fleet and charge 2d6" in the assault phase, also with re-rolls from Fleet. On average that's about 30" I reckon.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 15:58

Here's an idea - what if they could run 2d6 in either the shooting phase *or* the assault phase (but not both)?

So, they can either forgo their shooting to get extra movement for assault or else forgo their assault to move after shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 16:04

@The Shredder wrote:
Here's an idea - what if they could run 2d6 in either the shooting phase *or* the assault phase (but not both)?

So, they can either forgo their shooting to get extra movement for assault or else forgo their assault to move after shooting.

Yeah, that's another possibility. Adds a bit more flexibility too. I like it. Bit of a cross between Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders (but still not as good as either cos, well, Eldar!).

I'd add Move Through Cover to Hellions and change the movement rules for the skyboards as follows: Models on Hellion Skyboards may either move 2d6” in the shooting phase if they do not shoot or move 2d6” in the assault phase if they do not assault. In both cases they move using the Skyborne rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 18:03

Don't you think a 75% chance of game long shrouded is a little strong? 2+ jink saves forever.

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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 18:46

@The Red King wrote:
Don't you think a 75% chance of game long shrouded is a little strong? 2+ jink saves forever.

Sorry, what are you referring to?
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 18:51

I actually came to think about our remaining HQs and honstly, I don't see why I should take a Succubus anymore or a Haemonculus.

I really like the idea of a AP2, Fleshbane, Lethal Dose weapon and was among those who suggested it, but with A4, I7 and the already very good Labyrinthine Cunning I see that as a bit too much compared to the other HQs.

Moreover, low strength is not a problem anymore, why should anybody take a Soul-Trap?

I got a few ideas how those things could be balanced out.

So, what if the Archon still only had a AP2, ID Huskblade (maybe +1s) but at a much lower price? As we know, it won't do much on its own due to S3 but what if it could be taken at 15pts a piece?

But to change that, I'd simply suggest the old Soul-Trap. Once an Archon kills an enemy, make a test and if he succeeds he get's +1 S.

I could also see how Strength could be used as currency. So, you could remove 2 from your strength to restore a wound (or increase your toughness).


It would still give us something unique and a high risk-reward factor.
Put the Archon into a potent melee squad, let him gain some strength and then proceed to the stronger targets to kill them in one blow.


As I said, I love the idea of AP2, Fleshbane, Lethal Dose weapon and when I imagine that there comes one piece of wargear into my mind: The Ichor Injector.
So, what if the Ichor Injector would be AP2 and could be taken by a Haemonculus?

I think that could really be a reason to get a Haemonculus and it wouldn't be as nearly as strong with just A3, WS5 and I5. But the T4 would make the wearer much more durable.
And since the Haemonculus also cannot get a 2++ and is less killy with it than an Archon, you might even charge it at a lower price (like 20/25pts?).

Now imagine a Haemonculus running around with a Grotesquerie and an AP2 Ichor Injector...


I think all in all, that would result in a much richer HQ choice.

Edit: Btw. seeing that Taloi can take Twin-Linked Haywire Blasters, shouldn't Wracks be able to do so too? It could give them more utility in a Coven-only list and provide at least basic protection against AV when playing a coven heavy army.


Last edited by The Strange Dark One on Wed Feb 10 2016, 19:11; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Count Adhemar's (Yet Another) Dark Eldar Homebrew Codex   Wed Feb 10 2016, 18:53

They have a plus one to cover saves right? Which will stack with night fight for a permenant +2 to cover saves.

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