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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 01 2016, 22:54

I'm gonna go make a margarita to go with all this salt.

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Tue Feb 02 2016, 18:59

@CptMetal wrote:
Could you upload tar graph for us?

I've been looking for the graph but still can't find it.  I had a hard drive fail around xmas and I'm still rebuilding that machine and salvaging stuff off the old drive.

I do remember the books predicted by this pattern to be released in 2016 are pretty much anything that hasn't been updated since 6th edition: Tyranids, Daemons, Imperial Guard, and inquisition.  The chaos space marine book is already overdue, and not expected for another year and a half yet...

It'll be interesting to see if they try to keep some of the new/tiny books from 6th edition up to date like Militarum Tempstus, Legion of the Damned, and CSM/SM supplements.  Also I'm curious what will constitute an update going forward.  Chaos Daemons for example will receive a slew of new psychic powers in the near future, along with new formations in the Fenris expansion.  Both of which could change the way the army functions dramatically without the need for a new book.  The Tau update on the other hand, was largely copy and pasted from the previous book.

Unfortuntaely, dark eldar (like orks, tyranids) are going to need a lot more than simple tweaks to get back in line with more effective armies.
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Ultra Magnus
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 05:03

I really hope this turns out to be fandex wish listing. I don't want our codex to join the game breaking arms race that the rest of this game seems to be turning into. I would like a balanced codex that "makes sense" and not an arbitrary dogpile of rules that just break the underlying function of the BRB with their ignore cover/LOW/1stturnassault/no overwatch/invisible/re-roll jinx formation crap. At least our coven formations seemed to exist to create a fluffy army variant and not a meta breaking excuse for buying more models.

#teamsalt
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 05:49

Well, level of balance have changed significantly. This is not op, just leveling the playing field.
Blind on dark light, well thats one reason to take Blast Pistol on characters. Dissies are technically darklight too.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 11:42

@Ultra Magnus wrote:
I really hope this turns out to be fandex wish listing. I don't want our codex to join the game breaking arms race that the rest of this game seems to be turning into. I would like a balanced codex that "makes sense" and not an arbitrary dogpile of rules that just break the underlying function of the BRB with their ignore cover/LOW/1stturnassault/no overwatch/invisible/re-roll jinx formation crap. At least our coven formations seemed to exist to create a fluffy army variant and not a meta breaking excuse for buying more models.

#teamsalt

Actually the top tier codices are quite balanced if they fight each other. OP is the new "balanced" as if everyone is OP nobody really is.
If you "balance" somewhere between Space Marine and Orks you will just end up with a crap codex again.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 11:51

@Azdrubael wrote:
Blind on dark light, well thats one reason to take Blast Pistol on characters. Dissies are technically darklight too.

Dissies would certainly be a better home for that Blind rule and, along with some decent boosts for darklight weaponry, would be a good incentive to take some of each.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 19:37

I think there is time for a Deldar Codex in '16

Deamons will be out in a few weeks. And then there are Nids, CMS, Guard and Deldar that needs an update. Given some dedication that can be achieved within a year.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 23:22

@Jehoel wrote:
I think there is time for a Deldar Codex in '16

Deamons will be out in a few weeks. And then there are Nids, CMS, Guard and Deldar that needs an update. Given some dedication that can be achieved within a year.

Do not forget to add GK into that list....they also got screwed over with there codex. (do not think there codex changed outside of losing inquisition troops and characters that had no models)

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Wed Feb 03 2016, 23:39

I'm gona join the pound of salt group here. These rumors from LVO don't seem to have any link back to GW or its subsidies and nowhere but frontline is posting them.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 14:19

@Haemonculus_Vercingetorix wrote:
I'm gona join the pound of salt group here. These rumors from LVO don't seem to have any link back to GW or its subsidies and nowhere but frontline is posting them.

That is because everyone knows. GW is not going to let rumors get out this far away. Weeks maybe but they aren't going to let them come out 3-5 months away. This is complete wishlisting, I am not saying the DE will not get a book this year but the list above is all wish listing and will most likely not happen.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 16:28

@mrmagoo wrote:
@Haemonculus_Vercingetorix wrote:
I'm gona join the pound of salt group here. These rumors from LVO don't seem to have any link back to GW or its subsidies and nowhere but frontline is posting them.

That is because everyone knows.  GW is not going to let rumors get out this far away.  Weeks maybe but they aren't going to let them come out 3-5 months away.   This is complete wishlisting,  I am not saying the DE will not get a book this year but the list above is all wish listing and will most likely not happen.

Yeah, the only way that this information would leak at this point would be from a playtester anonymously breaking their NDA. Even if this is the real deal, there is no guarantee that what we eventually get will resemble it. I remember some of the alleged playtest rumors from before the 5th edition codex - I specifically remember something about Haemys being able to animate dead enemy models and control them - that didn't pan out at all.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 16:38

Playtesters? Who are these mythical beings?

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 18:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Playtesters? Who are these mythical beings?

^ On Point. They don't "playtest" they write things down and say "yeah, that should work".

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 18:46

Oh, come one. Even if it isnt true, i barely remember anything even remotely looking like genuine DE rumours, even wishlisting.

Let it spark some interest a bit, maybe you will paint some long forgotten Wych or Hellion box laying somewhere in the shelf. Cause who knows, maybe it will turn true, and you will be ready Very Happy

I know a guy who took great care in collecting Scarabs for the Necrons when they still had old old codex, and they quite frankly werent great. He bought them from guys for laughable price and when the new codex hit the table, oh boy that was fun. This entropy rule was all fun and giggles and he had a loooot of this stuff. Eating Land Raiders alive.

Our current codex focus is definately Covens. I guess judging by how poorly Wyches and Hellion are selling, next codex will be all out Wych Cults, because GW needs to sell them. So better buy some Wyches now from ebay when it is cheap )

With GW its always rushing towards the new thing, and by the time you actually get and painted it, something new already released and you are wasted. Better to foresee what coming next.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 18:57

@Azdrubael wrote:
Let it spark some interest a bit, maybe you will paint some long forgotten Wych or Hellion box laying somewhere in the shelf. Cause who knows, maybe it will turn true, and you will be ready Very Happy

The rumors on the Hellions actually made me buy some on Ebay for cheap cheap. /shrug. They're cool models either way.


@Azdrubael wrote:
Let it spark some interest a bit Very Happy
Totally Agree here.

If we can get more people interested in DE, even if it's only rumors how they might we awesome soon, that will force GW to invest into them eventually. Cuz you know, Sale of a model/race means they're willing to put more time and effort into them in the future (for the most part... Not Sisters though Razz)

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 20:34

Yeah, wyches will probably be a big deal in the new dex.
Or even get theiy own supplement.

Still don`t think we will see Codex Eldar: Commoragh sooner than fall of 2017

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 04 2016, 20:45

But it came from a reliable source with a good track record. At least according to Frontline. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 05 2016, 00:27

I'd love for these rumors to be true, I'm thinking we'll get a treatment more similar to the recent tau update. Fixing basic troops a touch, adding in the new detachment style and maybe a new unit
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 05 2016, 04:38

The only thing they will add will be formations. Witches will still suck. But maybe a special formation will make them great.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 05 2016, 19:08

@Devilogical wrote:
Yeah, wyches will probably be a big deal in the new dex.
Or even get theiy own supplement.

Still don`t think we will see Codex Eldar: Commoragh sooner than fall of 2017

I really hope that's not what the next codex will be called. Dark Eldar are a distinct faction after all, not just a different flavour of Craftworld Eldar, and they should stay that way.

@Jehoel wrote:
I think there is time for a Deldar Codex in '16

Deamons will be out in a few weeks. And then there are Nids, CMS, Guard and Deldar that needs an update. Given some dedication that can be achieved within a year.
@Wulfvin wrote:
If we can get more people interested in DE, even if it's only rumors how they might we awesome soon, that will force GW to invest into them eventually. Cuz you know, Sale of a model/race means they're willing to put more time and effort into them in the future (for the most part... Not Sisters though Razz)

I wouldn't count the Sisters of Battle out yet. They are now where Dark Eldar were before the 5th edition codex.
The metal models and lack of a physical codex are really the only things that keeps people from starting to play them. Their aesthetic is SigMarines level of fancy already, and GW knows that Bolters and power armor alone guarantee sales. Plus, Sisters are a surprisingly newby-friendly army, because they are all about daredevil plays.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 07 2016, 05:11

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would think blind on darklight weapons had any possible benefit in the game. You only shoot darklight at infantry when there are no tanks left, and making it more effective at its primary role is of far more importance.

Well perhaps they have a version of Blind that affects all units close enough to the primary target of the Darklight weapon. Say, your Raider shoots their Razorback, and a nearby Tactical squad is a few inches away, then they could be affected by the Blind?

After all, it is the process of bearing witness to the Darklight weapon firing that causes scars on the retina. It does not mention you need to the recipient of the beam itself.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 07 2016, 12:57

My thoughts in red:

@Skulnbonz wrote:

The next Dark Eldar codex is due out in the second half of 2016 with several changes.
Raiders are *free* for anything that can take dedicated transports. Given that new SWs aren't getting free vehicles, I'm dubious about this. I can't see them giving us free stuff after reigning it in with a SM army.
Venoms are not free but can disembark passengers after moving 12″. Seems odd to me that Venoms would have this but not Raiders.
Wyches sound *good* and fluffy – and they’re getting new models. They all get shred and hydra gauntlets cause blindness. They also have the innate ability to choose to wound off their choice of attributes rather than toughness. So they can pick initiative and wound Necrons on a 3+. That’s what Wyches do to slow people. Their Hecatrix rerolls *everything* in a challenge. Nice if true.
Combat drugs are on a 2D6 chart and are optional. Cost will be important here. As, of course, will the chart. I also want to know if my Archon can take drugs again.
Darklight weapons (dark lances, blasters, blast pistols) all gain the blind special rule.  Useless.
During night fighting all enemy units are treated as affected by the blind special rule and there are powers to make it dark on various rounds.
Whenever a Dark Eldar unit with the Power From Pain rule attacks an enemy unit that’s blinded, those attacks gain rending and instant death. So, DE now get bonuses if you fire their anti-vehicle weapons at infantry instead? Outstanding. Oh, and that only applies if the enemy actually fail their blind test.
Power from Pain is no longer a turn chart. Instead there are different types of pain the army focuses on, during a given turn and the army fights differently based on what’s chosen. No more details other than that. Sounds more interesting than the current table, but not much to go on.
The Court of the Archon gets a second copy of the warlord’s warlord power. Yey? Additionally enemies do not achieve the Slay the Warlord objective until they’ve killed both the warlord and the Court. "Sorry sir, we failed in our assassination mission."
"What? You didn't kill the Archon?"
"Oh no - we splattered his brains all over the place, but we didn't kill his bodyguards."

Succubi are like what Lilith Hesperax is right now. Not exactly sure what that means. I'm not sure that'll be an improvement.  Wink  
Hellions can hit-and-run on their initiative step rather than at the end of the combat round. Shoot, assault, make CC attacks, and then bounce out of combat before the enemy can make their attacks. However fluffy, I'm not seeing how this will help them in the slightest. They're still pathetic in melee and die to a stiff breeze.
Wracks are 2W and any character automatically passes LOS rolls if they have a Wrack with them. This could be nice, but will have to wait and see how much they cost.

@CptMetal wrote:
@The Shredder that should be satisfying if true right? Wink

Sorry, I hadn't seen these rumours till now or I would have answered sooner.

Anyway, I can't say I'm enticed so far. Don't get me wrong - some stuff is nice, like a new PfP chart and buffed wyches. But, what concerns me is the stuff we've heard nothing about. Are our characters still stuck footslogging? Are their weapons still garbage? Are Ravagers still stuck moving 6" if they want to fire all 3 guns?

Worse still, giving Darklight weapons Blind implies that that's the only buff they're getting. So, rather than getting a much-needed buff against vehicles, our anti-vehicle weapons have been given a crappy and unreliable bonus against infantry. As I said in the DE design thread, Blind is nice as a bonus rule, but it's not something I'd want to rely on - let alone on anti-tank guns.

Really, it seems like most of the fixes are for wych units of various kinds. And, whilst they definitely need a fix, I'm just concerned that the rest of the codex will go unfixed.

Also, even in terms of the good buffs, there's so little information that I can't really get excited. I mean, it's all very well to say that wyches have finally got the buff they needed, but for all we know GW has doubled their point cost.

In conclusion, there's some nice-sounding stuff, but it's too vague to make much of. And, the lack of rumours regarding other key issues with the codex is concerning. I'll wait for some more concrete stuff before I dare to get enthusiastic. tongue

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

Not if he converted all of his former DE to Corsairs already Razz

So far, I'm not seeing DE dethroning Corsairs as my main Eldar-y army. Wink
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:18

Keep in mind that even though these rumors have hit a few of the more popular 40k blogs, they're still all going back to that same source. While I have nothing against that source, I'm going to need more before I even start to consider these suspicious sounding rumors as any more than suspicious sounding rumors.

That said, I really don't see anything in that list that would bring the dark kin up to the power level even the current mid/upper tier codices (which will likely be stronger by the time any dark kin book releases anyway).

I also don't currently see how our "fast" army is going to compete with either branch of their eldar cousins, with things like the wulfen coming to eat their faces. Corsairs can just fire overwatch and laugh while they abandon their position. Dark kin will have to take the charge, and even our "best", 35 point melee units will be 1 shot instant death'd by the new furries, and outside speeding transports have no way to avoid them.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:26

If I'm not mistaken space wolves got a formation allowing them to disembark at full speed. On the one hand, maybe it'll be a thing for us. On the other hand it probably won't and raven guard will be better at stealth, planning, ambush night fighting then we are while space wolves will be faster and better in assault. All while being tougher and costing less.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:28

@stilgar27 wrote:
and even our "best", 35 point melee units will be 1 shot instant death'd by the new furries, and outside speeding transports have no way to avoid them.

Perhaps we'll get lucky and no one will want the new Wulfen models. Personal taste and all, but to me they look like someone in a bad wolf-man costume was given experimental steroids and then beaten half to death with a bad made out of frozen ugly. Razz
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