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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Thu Feb 25 2016, 23:30

This is probably bad form but I'm going to quote my own cynical self here:
@stilgar27 wrote:
Why then would games workshop put any effort in to them and sell a new unit or two when they could put the same resources toward an entire new faction like the recent releases of harlequins, imperial knights, or Ad Mech (which is about to receive it's third book within the same edition, and is probably already more popular than the dark eldar) and sell entire armies?

They're running out of (familiar) intellectual properties here but there have been persistent rumors of genestealer cult models over the past year.
So ya the first gene stealer models are coming out with the death watch box set and their 40k rules make it clear they're a new army, not a supplement to tyranids.  Just with the two units that have leaked, it's going to be hard to argue they aren't better than the dark eldar out of the gate.

They include a level 2 telepath HQ with infiltrate, stealth, hit and run, and the stat line roughly that of a daemon prince.  He's not a monstrous creature though so can join units and fit in transports (he's bulky).  The hybrids are the real indicator though... 85 points gets you a brood of 12.  They're troops with WS/I 4, fearless, and with war gear get 3 attacks each, 5+ armor, and assault grenades.  Most importantly perhaps is that their melee is strength 4, ap5 and rending. - once again they're a touch more than 7 points a piece.

Delivery is going to be a question going forward but if I remember the old gene stealer cult army, armored transports are a staple.  With inflexible 12 man units I expect they'll probably have access to chimeras (or something like it).  There are also what look like autoguns, 2 grenade launchers, and 2 handheld autocannons (it's a "cutting beam" or basically a 24" lascannon) in the sprue, so they will not be entirely without fire support.

Edit:  If anyone cares it looks like this release is going to be pretty limited, and there's no sign of the rumored open top transport for cultists yet.  That said the entire box set content forms a neat little 600 point formation which basically gains adamantium will, fearless, stealth, shrouded for the first turn and a special kind of infiltrate that ignores pretty much every restriction on infiltrate for the hardest hitters.  So delivery definitely isn't going to be any sort of problem.  If I'm reading this properly, you can set some of your meanest melee units up within an inch of anything, fully in sight, and they can charge on turn one. They also have hit and run so ya


Last edited by stilgar27 on Mon Feb 29 2016, 01:55; edited 3 times in total
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 08:43

Quote :
They include a level 2 telepath HQ with infiltrate, stealth, hit and run, and the stat line roughly that of a daemon prince.

They also let him only take Telepathy with an BS of 0. Gotta love the competent design team.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 13:25

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
They include a level 2 telepath HQ with infiltrate, stealth, hit and run, and the stat line roughly that of a daemon prince.

They also let him only take Telepathy with an BS of 0. Gotta love the competent design team.

As far as I can tell, GW just quickly threw together some rules so that you could use the boardgame models in 40k. Nothing I've seen of the genestealer list makes me think, "oooh scary". Sure the hybrids can pack a punch in close-combat (they're genestealers - they *should* pack a punch), but they're really squishy at T3 and 5+ armor save. Frankly, with I4, they'd either go toe-to-toe, or get stomped by a unit of wyches (depending on who got the charge, drug result, etc.). The Patriarch is T5, and has no invul save, so he's probably squishier than he seems too.

Since there are no transports in the boardgame, I wouldn't expect there to be any in the 40k list either. It looks like they'll just be there to supplement a tyranid list, unless the WD article includes some alternate ally options (they probably *should* be able to ally with imperial guard, as long as they are represented as cultists rebelling against the imprerium - i.e. no other imperial armies allowed in the list).
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 13:53

Even if you "just quickly" throw together something.... the first thing when I read "teleapthy" was "oh nice. Shriek". Then I saw BF 0 and went "well... they did not even try"
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 14:33

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Even if you "just quickly" throw together something.... the first thing when I read "teleapthy" was "oh nice. Shriek". Then I saw BF 0 and went "well... they did not even try"

WD writers don't seem to have the best track record for knowing what they are talking about. Remember when they claimed that wracks could take power mauls?

Either that, or they're indirectly confirming that psychic shriek does not require a 'to hit' roll.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 14:42

You've got to laugh at the quality of the GW design team. It's that or cry! Sad

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PriorofDeath
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 18:04

@Count Adhemar wrote:
You've got to laugh at the quality of the GW design team. It's that or cry! Sad

Are they even mutually exclusive at this point?
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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 21:37

Well if I got it right. The new ork starter box formation has a special rule that's makes them attack in the "pile in" phase in close combat. Now that is a game breaking rule! Just like the space wolves starting box one run and assault. In it self not great but combined with wulfen and you have first turn charging thunder cavalry... You can probably upgrade the ork noobs to bikers or megaarmor and the pile in ekstra attacks now kills just about anything.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Fri Feb 26 2016, 22:22

@killedbydeath wrote:
Well if I got it right. The new ork starter box formation has a special rule that's makes them attack in the "pile in" phase in close combat. Now that is a game breaking rule!

...

I guess high initiative is for suckers. I mean, what sort of moronic army relies on fragile, high-initiative melee stuff in the age of Wargunner 40k? Oh.

On a more positive note, I recently purchased an army I like to think of as Dark Eldar v2.0:

Spoiler:
 
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 01:02

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Even if you "just quickly" throw together something.... the first thing when I read "teleapthy" was "oh nice. Shriek". Then I saw BF 0 and went "well... they did not even try"

Thats the first thing you thought of when you saw Telepathy? For me it was "Cool, invisible Carnifexes" because that solves all the problems you ever have with getting the fex across the board to do what it's supposed to do.

Given the rules we've seen so far for the Patriarch and the Gen 1 and 2 Hybrids they're looking pretty decent, better than stock Nids at least.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 04:27

@The Shredder wrote:

On a more positive note, I recently purchased an army I like to think of as Dark Eldar v2.0:

I went from Dark Eldar to Cryx when Warmachine first came out.

If your experience is going to be anything like mine, you are going to have so much fun.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 07:13

@killedbydeath wrote:
Well if I got it right. The new ork starter box formation has a special rule that's makes them attack in the "pile in" phase in close combat. Now that is a game breaking rule! Just like the space wolves starting box one run and assault. In it self not great but combined with wulfen and you have first turn charging thunder cavalry... You can probably upgrade the ork noobs to bikers or megaarmor and the pile in ekstra attacks now kills just about anything.

Not quite on the Ork front.

Essentially the only time you can really trigger it is the start of your own turn - so you either have to be charged the prior turn and survive or be locked in combat with something. THEN you trigger it and fight at the start of your turn and then get to fight again in your own assault phase.

The way its written causes a huge number of issues though... like the enemy not being able to lose combat a flee during this extra combat.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 07:55

Quote :
Thats the first thing you thought of when you saw Telepathy? For me it was "Cool, invisible Carnifexes" because that solves all the problems you ever have with getting the fex across the board to do what it's supposed to do.

He is the only one getting Telepathy, so you have a 33% chance to get Invisibility. Shriek on the other hand is a 100% chance.
I dont know about you but I dont build my army around a small chance. Besides Invisibility does not "solve all the problems you ever have" because it still only moves 6" and is avoided easily.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 10:00

But it can run. Don't forget that.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 10:07

@CptMetal wrote:
But it can run. Don't forget that.

So can a Talos...
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 17:53

I think the issue with invisible Carnifexes is that they're not really scary in the first place. Kinda sad, really.

What about tyranid gargantuan creatures? Any of those worth making invisible?

@Calyptra wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:

On a more positive note, I recently purchased an army I like to think of as Dark Eldar v2.0:

I went from Dark Eldar to Cryx when Warmachine first came out.

If your experience is going to be anything like mine, you are going to have so much fun.

I've only had one game with them so far (got Skarre1 and an infantry-heavy army), but they do indeed seem like a lot of fun. Smile
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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 18:37

So we've moved from bashing Finecast to discussing Tyranids in this thread called "New Dark Eldar Rumours"? How about we change the thread title then, because everytime I come here, expecting new rumours, I am left disappointed. Sad

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 18:46

To be fair this thread should have been dead since page one and especially after every single reliable rumor monger called bs on that.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 18:46

Alternatively, we could make up our own DE rumours. Very Happy
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čiernyčaj
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 19:24

I second Kinnay's thought. Could we stop misusing this thread, please?
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 27 2016, 20:26

Yeah, I think it served its purpose. We can start a new one when there's new rumors about Dark Eldar.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 28 2016, 01:09

I take some of the blame for derailing the thread again, but I think we all felt (if not "knew") this was stillborn wish-listing from page 1.  Topics meander though, especially when you're dealing with a theoretical one to begin with.  Moreover if we kept every "dark eldar" topic strictly to the dark kin in a vacuum, these discussions would all die off rather quickly.

I could argue though that the genestealer army coming to fruition shows us some things about the GW development process that are relevant to future DE releases (besides the fact that they'd rather sell new armies and games than fix broken ones).
Such as:
 
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PriorofDeath
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 28 2016, 02:09

At this point I'll be shocked if we get any attention before Q4 of this year. I emailed GW asking if we were going to get a "start collecting" box and got the typical bad news bears no, and that they don't know sheeit and if they did they wouldn't say sheeit anyways.

This thread is so far gone if real rumors and leaks popped up someone would start a real thread. Those leaks from FLG are a bunch of gab.

I agree with stilgar, GW has realized that these mini games will cater to a larger demographic of players (GW isn't a gaming company btw...LoL, atleast five me a reach around while you frak me with hypocrisy) and collectors than a real thought out update to their existing products.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 28 2016, 04:15

@Kinnay wrote:
...everytime I come here, expecting new rumours, I am left disappointed. Sad

Welcome to Commorragh! Smile
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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 28 2016, 05:44

Well at least our chances of getting a new codex and a starting box is better than sisters of battle Rolling Eyes we just have to wait and see. I am guessing later in 2026 it takes about 10 years to make something dark eldar...
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