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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 20:16

I've never had any troubles with finecast, but it's all anecdotal anyway. Am I just really lucky, or are you just really unlucky, or do I only buy models from lines that came out perfect? Who knows.

I do prefer them to the old metal ones. They are easier to glue, easier to paint, and they do hold a lot more detail. I also remember something like this before: the old models weren't just made of metal, they were made of lead. Then they switched to 'white metal' (pewter, really) and everyone hated them. They looked wrong, they were stiff, the casts came out wrong, you couldn't do anything with them, and yadda yadda. A lot of it was true, but it didn't seem to occur to anyone that GW hadn't changed it because they just felt like spending a lot of money, they had to do it because lead is toxic and you weren't allowed to sell it as toy soldiers any more. They sold it as an upgrade, but it wasn't as if they really had a choice. Miniature hobbies aren't something that exists in a vacuum away from the real world.

Then it was Finecast, and maybe a lot of it was justified, but a lot of it is just the same thing all over again. Nobody likes change. But change isn't optional, the world changes and you have to change with it. And it's not a bad thing, really.

Not that it matters, because Finecast is pretty much over now. Smile
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 20:26

Finecast certainly had upsides. And, if GW hadn't shoved it's greatness down our throats - even going so far as to call it finecast - whilst passing on absolutely none of the savings onto their customers, I imagine people would have been more forgiving of its flaws.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 20:50

So... much... off...tooooop!!!

Very Happy

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 20:55

Well... the cost of making a miniature for GW isn't the cost of its materials. It's maintaining their fairly large infrastructure, paying their employees, distributing around the world, paying dividends to their investors, and so on. All that money has to come from somewhere, and where else is it going to come from if it isn't models? (Well, licensing out to video games and so on, but still.) They could make them out of cheese, and it would still cost just as much.

The money that GW makes doesn't go into buying ferraris and tropical island lairs. If they were smaller they would be cheaper, but would you really want that?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 21:34

@Barking Agatha wrote:
Well... the cost of making a miniature for GW isn't the cost of its materials. It's maintaining their fairly large infrastructure, paying their employees, distributing around the world, paying dividends to their investors, and so on. All that money has to come from somewhere, and where else is it going to come from if it isn't models? (Well, licensing out to video games and so on, but still.) They could make them out of cheese, and it would still cost just as much.

I'm not following your logic here. That stuff all existed when they were using metal, too.

@Barking Agatha wrote:
The money that GW makes doesn't go into buying ferraris and tropical island lairs.

No one said it did. Do you have an actual argument or just a barn full of straw?
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 21:50

Just a barn full of straw, I suppose.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 21:57

Back on topic then, I don't suppose anyone's seen any follow up rumours?
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 22:26

Don't be so impolite shredder. Try being a gentleman.

I personally don't like the most metal ones because I have to think of all the old terrible looking models. And I think fine cast is good if you aren't living in a hot area. Otherwise I prefer plastic. Nothing beats plastic.

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 22:33

Slight detour then I'm done.

You're right though Agatha that the bulk of their expense is labor, packaging, and shipping.  I've actually seen the inside of a gw factory, and at the time they were casting metal in teams of 2 people working a furnace/mold block.  It was not efficient at all (they weren't even spin casting, and were cutting fill channels as needed with box cutters...) and was mostly just people standing around in white coats and goggles.  Maybe they've improved that?  prices would seem to indicate they haven't.

With modern techniques though they could simplify their entire line into injection molding (wracks may be the perfect example).  Chances are though we won't see that until their current molds' shelf lives are up.

Back on topic - Nope Shredder, all the rumors since then have been about space wolves/daemons and the rebranded black reach models which will be bringing a few new formations to the orks.

There is also a simplified set of rules for kids to play 40k with those models which has of course lead to cries of "OMG AOS 40k".  I saw some of them the data cards and besides a design simplification the only obvious change was flamers were assault 3 instead of template.

The likelihood that the dark eldar stuff was a wishlist grows daily.

To be honest I wouldn't be upset if orks get redone entirely before dark eldar do, they're at least as weak with no other options.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   15/2/2016, 23:17

Some orks are coming out next week, but I think it's just a re-release.
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 01:25

Actually I think it has something to do with Farsight Enclaves which are getting an update soon, might be wrong on that connection though.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 06:23

From the threads on Dakka (I miss Warseer. Its hatred of Age of Sigmar kept me warm at night.) it looks like an Orks/Farsight release is next, with the Orks getting some (I guess?) new models. After that, rumor has it, will be the Deathwatch/Genestealer Cult board game that periodically gets contemplated in rumor threads.

Nothing at all about Dark Eldar.

I think Finecast is the worst stuff ever, in that I've assembled two Finecast models, and both of them required me to resculpt big chunks of them, and then structurally reinforce them because the stuff's so flimsy and prone to warping/drooping. Lately I've been working on models made from soft, rubbery board game plastic, and that stuff is awful to work with, but it's still better than Finecast.

I've always liked metal, but I've come to appreciate it a lot more recently. A metal model will last like nothing else. It can be sold and resold and stripped and repainted for decades, and will still look great. Plastic models are dubious to strip, and will probably have been assembled badly.

If you're patient, you can get the current Mandrakes, Incubi, and beast packs in metal on ebay. It's only Grotesques and the Court that are Finecast only at this point, in addition to all being monopose.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 07:02

Please stop. I have to click through 9 pages on my phone to see that the "new dark eldar rumors" is someone bashing on fine cast. It wasn't good,cool please make a new thread all about it. Thank you.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 08:24

Fair point. Can we keep this on topic please people. Thanks - Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 09:46

Far as I can see, the new ork stuff is a mix of old black reach models getting a separate release, and the formations from the red waagh (plus 3 new ones? Not clear if they're new or the ones from RW), whilst farsight gets a separate supplement in the manner of the recent Cadian, Raven Guard and White Scars releases.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   16/2/2016, 21:12

Sorry, let me try to be more clear and less rambly about the points I was trying to make in my previous post:

1. There's no more rumors. The cake is a lie.

2. Finecast is being phased out, probably not because it's awful but because it doesn't sell, and GW wants to sell models. Dark Eldar have five Finecast units, two of which not only have only ever existed in Finecast, but are also single monopose sculpts. Because of that, the idea that GW would redo a modular plastic kit before redoing the Finecast units, particularly Grotesques and the Court, seems extremely unlikely.

But, actually, this is GW we're talking about. Does anyone know if there's a precedent? Since they started phasing out Finecast, have their been cases where they redid plastic units instead of Finecast units? I guess the Eldar jetbikes would fall in that category, but given the extreme age of the previous kits I'm not sure it's a good example.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   17/2/2016, 09:40

@Calyptra wrote:

2. Finecast is being phased out, probably not because it's awful but because it doesn't sell, and GW wants to sell models. Dark Eldar have five Finecast units, two of which not only have only ever existed in Finecast, but are also single monopose sculpts. Because of that, the idea that GW would redo a modular plastic kit before redoing the Finecast units, particularly Grotesques and the Court, seems extremely unlikely.

This - I've even sat in a seminar with Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin where it was stated explicitly that the monopose grotesque was something they really didn't like and wouldn't have done if it weren't for time constraints on getting the codex released. You could see that having a monopose kit really irks Jes Goodwin.

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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 09:32

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318915-dark-eldar-rumours/

Two posts down, Atia (supposedly very reliable rumour-source with a 100% accuracy record) debunk the rumors.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 10:00

@Sigmaril wrote:
Two posts down, Atia (supposedly very reliable rumour-source with a 100% accuracy record) debunk the rumors.

I don't know if I'd call that "debunked". All she said was "no", with no elaboration, nor any corroborating evidence. Regardless of how reliable a person has been about other things in the past, I need more to go on to just take someone's word for it, especially when that alleged reliability is anecdotal and being reliable doesn't mean "all knowing".

Granted, the rumors themselves have no real corroboration either, but I still don't think that's enough to outright dismiss the rumors' possible validity.

Basically, we don't know anything for sure, and until she gives us more to go on than "nope, sorry", I don't think she does either. It's all just speculation.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 12:32

Having seen how reliable Atia has been on other occasions, I'm far more likely to take their word for it than the slightly bizarre wishlisting that the rumour suggested.

As you said @Vael Galizur - the original rumour has no corroboration (nor as far as I'm aware any actual attribution beyond frontline gaming reporting it, though not being the originator). On that basis, I'm more inclined to believe the person who's well known for a good record on rumours over an anonymous rumour that really looks like a wishlist. Does anyone know if any other armies than marines have got the free transports stuff in a detachment? Seems like even GW would be unlikely to just rehash the same idea they've had previously for a new release...

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 13:16

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Having seen how reliable Atia has been on other occasions, I'm far more likely to take their word for it than the slightly bizarre wishlisting that the rumour suggested.

Fair enough. I've just never heard of her, and she didn't exactly present a compelling argument. lol

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 14:45

She is supposedly GW PR manager, too many inside info she get out.

So probably she is right. Sad.

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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 17:57

What about a DE bundle like they currently have for all the popular armies? Most of them come with a formation card that let you use the army out of the box.

Wouldent it be nice...
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 18:07

At this point im just happy that DE did not get squatted yet (like tombkings recently)
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   19/2/2016, 20:37

I hope those Deffkoptaz from the Black Reach set finally make it into the main line, along with new Wartrakkz and a model for Wazdakka Gutsmek. They are 8 years and two codices late by now.
I'm not playing Orks, but I'd much rather see forgotten units like those getting revived than yet another super-heavy vehicle.


Correction: Black Reach =/= Sanctus Reach.

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