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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 13 2016, 15:44

If you're going all in on cynicism consider this:

The dark eldar line has already sold the bulk of the models that it's going to for the foreseeable future.  Why then would games workshop put any effort in to them and sell a new unit or two when they could put the same resources toward an entire new faction like the recent releases of harlequins, imperial knights, or Ad Mech (which is about to receive it's third book within the same edition, and is probably already more popular than the dark eldar) and sell entire armies?

They're running out of (familiar) intellectual properties here but there have been persistent rumors of genestealer cult models over the past year.  They could also develop from popular fandexes which have existed since third edition like exodites, demiurg (squats), or the hrud.

Similarly there are fan-favorite forces which have little to no model support like sisters of battle and the inquisition, which would make GW a lot more money than a dark eldar update.

See also: 30k

You could argue that daemons are not terribly popular and received a pretty hefty update. Daemons though had a singular flaw, and the rule changes really just fix that weakness. There's no point changes and no new units.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 13 2016, 17:07

@stilgar27 wrote:
Fine cast models are like perfect little distilled nuggets of everything that is wrong with GW.

Spoiler:
 

What's wrong with them?

It seems to me that this is one of those things that 'everyone knows', but no one bothers to check if it's actually true.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 13 2016, 17:43

And if they'd all been like that, there would have been no complaints. Instead, many people opened their packages only to find stuff like this:

Spoiler:
 
It's not a good thing when cheap, Chinese rip-offs have fewer casting errors than your premium product.

Furthermore, consider that GW marketed their resin as the greatest thing to ever hit wargaming - even being so arrogant as to call it finecast. And, despite resin (especially the crap they used) being vastly cheaper than metal, Failcast models actually ended up being more expensive than their metal counterparts. So, GW was charging absurdly high prices for a substandard product.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sat Feb 13 2016, 19:11

I'm genuinely glad you've had good luck with fine cast Agatha - and I'm glad that GW generally has a good reputation for replacing these models as this could have done even more damage to their brand then it did (I still know people who quit 40k over fine cast).

First Google Hit on finecast:
 

The fact is though that they have had to replace these models in huge numbers, so there are/were certainly problems.  They've even created products like liquid green stuff, to combat issues that simply didn't exist in previous materials.  Maybe it's a selection bias? like the defective ones stay on the shelf, or are more likely to end up ebay? but I've personally never seen a fine cast model in a package, that made me want to open that package.  And this is... how many years after the initial fine cast debacle?  Supposedly many models have never sold out their initial run, and therefore have not had the benefit of the improved methods that may have developed since then - so quality may vary greatly from model to model.

What really bothered me though about the change over though, was the deceit.  Resin isn't safer, or (noticeably) more accurate than metal.  What it is, is dramatically cheaper and more fragile.  Overall models probably went from $2-3 a piece to produce, to a few cents - and so they... increased prices?  Peak GW right there.  Also how many fine cast incubi will still be intact in 25 years?  The metal versions of the same model will almost certainly be (and the people paying $12 a piece for them on ebay know this).  I've sold other metal models from just before the change over for as much as $25 a piece, but the fine cast version of the same model (in the US anyway) is pretty much universally worthless.

I'm sure that someone will argue that this can't be true, and all the other mini makers charge the same so it must cost a fortune to work in resin and rtv silicone.  I encourage you to do the research (as it's against the rules to really talk about it here) and keep in mind that you'd be paying retail and GW would be paying roughly half that to produce these models.  I'm serious though when I say you can have better resin results, with no real equipment (are legos equipment?), in your garage.  Just like almost any of us here could write a better codex in a weekend than the one it took GW 2 years to botch.

I need to stop thinking about it to be honest, I feel the rage quits coming on again.

This one always makes me laugh though:
 
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SaturdayNightWrist
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 04:18

On the subject of updating models, I'm hoping we get an update on mandrakes.
They have such awesome models already we just need them in plastic and some changes to their rules/role.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 08:55

For mandrake just take the spirit hosts of the vampire counts. They are what I thought they should be
Maybe even combine it with Kabalite Warrior dudes.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 09:33

@CptMetal wrote:
For mandrake just take the spirit hosts of the vampire counts. They are what I thought they should be
Maybe even combine it with Kabalite Warrior dudes.

Same as with the Crypt Horror Grotesques, proxies shouldn't be an obviously better option than the official models. And that is GW's oppinion as well, so they have all reasons in the world to get working on it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 09:46

The official line from GW on proxies is that they're not allowed in their events. I have however taken my Crypt Horror Grotesques up there a couple of times for Throne of Skulls and there's been no problem. In fact a couple of the GW staffers at Warhammer World said how cool they were!

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 09:47

You got pictures of those?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 10:06

@CptMetal wrote:
For mandrake just take the spirit hosts of the vampire counts. They are what I thought they should be
Maybe even combine it with Kabalite Warrior dudes.

I have to say, I didn't actually realise that Spirit Hosts had gotten an updated model (shows how little I care about VCs since AoS dropped).

So, when I first saw this, I thought you were saying Mandrakes should look like the undead soprano team:

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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 12:52

Either way, I don't like the spirit hosts as mandrakes. Neither really looks like a shadow come to life. While I like the current mandrake models, they also don't have the shadow come to life feel for me either. They current mandrakes might fit better as the husk things mentioned in the fluff, those soulless Dark Eldar who have been driven mad, and are starving.

We do need new mandrake models.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 13:39

@megatrons2nd wrote:
Either way, I don't like the spirit hosts as mandrakes.  Neither really looks like a shadow come to life.  While I like the current mandrake models, they also don't have the shadow come to life feel for me either.  They current mandrakes might fit better as the husk things mentioned in the fluff, those soulless Dark Eldar who have been driven mad, and are starving.

We do need new mandrake models.

Honest question - what models do you think would be appropriate for living shadows?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 16:44

@Count Adhemar wrote:

The official line from GW on proxies is that they're not allowed in their events. I have however taken my Crypt Horror Grotesques up there a couple of times for Throne of Skulls and there's been no problem. In fact a couple of the GW staffers at Warhammer World said how cool they were!

Proxies =/= conversions. I think that conversions are generally accepted (it's kindofa integral part of a hobby), particularly if the model is composed of GW product. if you had brought crypt horrors completely unaltered, so that they didn't look like grotesques, then there would have likely been a problem.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 17:28

I used the plastic spirit hosts and mandrakes for my dark Eldar. They look kind of awesome

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 20:47

And mine are Sisters of Avelorn, with Dark "Aelf" Sisters of Slaughter masks and Corsair legs, but not necessarily because I think they look better. It's mainly because I think their firey bows are perfect to mockingly point out how Baleblasts are much more effective than a Mandrake's close combat attacks. Razz

The models are not the only thing about Mandrakes that could use an update.
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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 22:34

@The Shredder wrote:
@megatrons2nd wrote:
Either way, I don't like the spirit hosts as mandrakes.  Neither really looks like a shadow come to life.  While I like the current mandrake models, they also don't have the shadow come to life feel for me either.  They current mandrakes might fit better as the husk things mentioned in the fluff, those soulless Dark Eldar who have been driven mad, and are starving.

We do need new mandrake models.

Honest question - what models do you think would be appropriate for living shadows?

I am not sure, as I can't sculpt. I will say that Sheets with faces don't do it for me. The Smoke looking ghosts don't really do it for me either.

I would probably say make a roughly humanoid shape, with very little detail on it, just the parts that are meant to be in this world should be detailed. Similar to the faces that are on the current models, just remove the clothing and weapons bits.

If you play Elder Scrolls online, the way other players look before they fully load in your view, just with implied motion like every other model.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Sun Feb 14 2016, 22:43

@krayd wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:

The official line from GW on proxies is that they're not allowed in their events. I have however taken my Crypt Horror Grotesques up there a couple of times for Throne of Skulls and there's been no problem. In fact a couple of the GW staffers at Warhammer World said how cool they were!

Proxies =/= conversions. I think that conversions are generally accepted (it's kindofa integral part of a hobby), particularly if the model is composed of GW product. if you had brought crypt horrors completely unaltered, so that they didn't look like grotesques, then there would have likely been a problem.

Probably true but I guess what I'm getting at is that mine are converted Crypt Horrors rather than converted Grots. The official stance from GW is that if there is a GW model for a unit then you should use it. Unofficially, it's rule of cool.

And for CptMetal, here you go:






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John M
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 08:46

@Mr Believer wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if GW sanctioned these rumours themselves. Wyches and Hellions aren't selling, so they hint that they're going to become amazing so everybody snaps them up before they're re-boxed and re-priced. That way they don't even have to change the rules to get the sales.

When did I become so cynical?!


are kabal helmets made out of tinfoil?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 08:52

@Count Adhemar wrote:

And for CptMetal, here you go:






I love those.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 09:36

Thank you. Pretty simple conversions (fortunately for my green stuff skills) and you get so many extra bits in the Talos/Cronos kit that they end up being quite a bit cheaper than the official models. I got 12 Grots (and 3 Cronos) for £100 less than it would have cost with official models and, IMO, they look way better!

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 09:45

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Thank you. Pretty simple conversions (fortunately for my green stuff skills) and you get so many extra bits in the Talos/Cronos kit that they end up being quite a bit cheaper than the official models. I got 12 Grots (and 3 Cronos) for £100 less than it would have cost with official models and, IMO, they look way better!

They do indeed - I used a box of Crypt horrors for mine and a few vials etc from the Talos kit. Even more simple conversions than yours Count but still really happy with the aesthetic. The can be seen on page 7 of my project log, about 3/4 of the way down.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 14:34

Will have to get some Crypt Horrors now to convert into Grotesques, those look amazing Coutn Adhemar, though I'll probably use the fincast model for the Aberration. I've had no problems with finecast where my Incubi, Mandrakes, Sslyth, Lhemaens, Drazhar, Red Terror and Deathleaper have all been excellent. I certainly prefer them to the old metal models which are all uglier IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 16:53

@Imateria wrote:
Will have to get some Crypt Horrors now to convert into Grotesques, those look amazing Coutn Adhemar, though I'll probably use the fincast model for the Aberration. I've had no problems with finecast where my Incubi, Mandrakes, Sslyth, Lhemaens, Drazhar, Red Terror and Deathleaper have all been excellent. I certainly prefer them to the old metal models which are all uglier IMO.  

Metal models HAS WEIGHT.
You literaly feel how important your character is.

My finecast models are fine btw. But in our local club not everyone can say so...
Those fire dragons without legs... Sad

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 17:54

@Devilogical wrote:

Metal models HAS WEIGHT.
You literaly feel how important your character is.

My finecast models are fine btw. But in our local club not everyone can say so...
Those fire dragons without legs... Sad

I actually have this yellow GW pamphlet from our local store claiming 30 benefits of fine cast over metal.  
They mention the weight in 4-5 of them with a lot of exclamation points lol!  "Tipping over" also makes a couple appearances.

I'll never forget though my buddy bringing home his first fine cast model from that same store which was some sort of goblin.  He couldn't tell it was defective in the blister because instead of a sprue it was basically a flat resin panel with a goblin face and hands sticking out of it.  It looked like han solo trapped in carbonite.

He spent about 10 minutes trying to "punch it out" of the block, assuming this was just the new way they sold models, and not some epic screw up.  Needless to say his enthusiasm never recovered.

I try to use as much metal as possible, but ya a lot of them are ugly.  I'm lucky enough to have a lot of "peak" metal eldar and chaos marines that actually look good. I also have a ton of necromunda models (my first love) that I use for things like chaos cultists or inquisitorial henchmen.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Rumors   Mon Feb 15 2016, 18:17

One of my first experiences with finecast was with the Necron Stormlord (back when he was new). I dropped his staff (not the whole model, just the staff) two feet onto carpeted floor. It snapped in two.
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