HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 09:43

Hell drakes are the bane of my life. I hate taking flyers as a counter since ours aren't great. It's always fun having that strength 6 flame just crisp my poor warriors.
So fire storm redoubt a possible answer to fliers and their shenanigans? It's 200 points so I realllllly don't wana be wasting it if it's not going to truly put the bastards (or any other flyers for that matter) out of the sky. Thoughts?
Back to top Go down
Amoras
Slave
avatar

Posts : 6
Join date : 2015-09-09

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 10:22

I tend to ignore themm, with our mobilty you can move in a way it won't be able to do much it beign very limited as a flyer even with torrent.

Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 10:27

kind of impossible when 2 hell drakes are on the board
Back to top Go down
Squidmaster
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1507
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 10:38

I thoroughly recommend the Firestorm Redoubt, especially if you man it with Lance-totting Trueborn. Recommended.

_________________
Kabal of the Eternal NightModelling Blog
The Squidmaster DistractathonNotes on being an RPG Gamesmaster
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 10:53

It sounds nice it's too bad they can only have 2 lances, 4? I'd be all over it Sad
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6635
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 10:59

Problem with the Firestorm is that, due to the Fully Automated rule, the Icarus Lascannons will probably manage less than 1HP on a Helldrake and then the Helldrake puts its lovely Baleflamer template over the building and pretty much anything on the battlements and/or inside the building, dies automatically with no saves (automatic hits, wounding on rerollable 2+, AP3, Ignores Cover and S6 to negate FNP on most our models).

I bleedin' hate Helldrakes!!

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Massaen
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2249
Join date : 2011-07-05
Location : Western Australia

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 11:04

Given how limited the hell drakes shooting arc is - I always find them easy to get around and out of arc

_________________
Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website
OBJECTIVE SECURED
Back to top Go down
http://objectivesecured.com.au/
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 11:07

Playing itc? It has 180 degree arcs
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 11:18

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Playing itc? It has 180 degree arcs

Nope, it's a hull-mounted weapon - giving it just a 45 degree arc.

From the CSM FAQ:
Q:How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Helldrake's ranged weapon? (p52)
A: Treat the Helldrake's ranged weapon as a hull-mounted weapon, measuring all ranges and line of sight from the barrel of the gun.

From the rulebook:
"assume all hull-mounted weapons can swivel horizontally up to 45º."
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2650
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 12:53

Only 45? Nice to know.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
stilgar27
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 468
Join date : 2012-12-04

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 14:57

If you run in to a lot of flyers and are willing to take corsair allies, the fire storm (fast skimmer tank, not redoubt) is pretty nasty anti air with interceptor and a 60" range for less than a hell drake.  It's pretty easy to convert one too - I just made a new turret for a magnetized falcon and attached some elongated scatter lasers to it.

You'd think it'd struggle against av 12 but you're going to average around 1 pen with those 6 twin linked, rending, ignore cover shots.  I've had really good luck with mine, including knocking a storm raven out of the sky before it got to do anything.  I've only played 2 games with corsairs though so it's not a fair sampling.

The problem with hell drakes is that they are more resilient than any other av12 flyer, having a 5++, IWND, and a very good chance of ignoring shaken/stunned (and therefore immobilized).  It's only real weakness is it's rear armor, which is not something you're likely to exploit with a static gun.
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 17:02

Oh, one other thing - make sure he's following the rules for flamers correctly. You have to put as much of the template as possible on the target unit (or cover as much of a target vehicle's hull as possible). So, you can't just clip your target in order to get the flamer over another one or two units as well.
Back to top Go down
Wulfvin
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 48
Join date : 2015-10-07
Location : Annapolis, MD

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 17:12

I've found my Razorwing to be extremely effective against the helldrakes that I encounter on a regular basis.
So much so, that I can't make a list without the Razorwing if I am playing a CSM player, cuz you know it's coming.

That and, as a DE only army (haven't branched into Allies yet), its one of the only things we have to take on flyers.

_________________
Kabal of the Tormented Scale
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 17:17

Could you elaborate on that?

I mean, the odds of you penetrating it are less than 1/3 (assuming it doesn't jink). Even glancing it, you're at less than 50%. With 3 HPs and IWND it seems like you could easily shoot it for 6 turns and still not kill it.
Back to top Go down
Wulfvin
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 48
Join date : 2015-10-07
Location : Annapolis, MD

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 17:22

Most of the time, the Heldrake isn't going to jink, because he wouldn't be able to fire his template weapon on the next round. Heldrakes are there to lay the beat down before getting gunned down, so he'll probably not jink in the hopes of flaming another unit to a crisp.

It only takes 1 penetrating (with luck) and IWND is not reliable (as my CSM opponent sees frequently).

Maybe I've just been lucky, but with the two Dark Lances, I've managed to at least give them a run for their money in most games.



_________________
Kabal of the Tormented Scale
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 17:48

Wulfvin wrote:
Most of the time, the Heldrake isn't going to jink, because he wouldn't be able to fire his template weapon on the next round. Heldrakes are there to lay the beat down before getting gunned down, so he'll probably not jink in the hopes of flaming another unit to a crisp.

Yeah, but they still have a 5++.

Wulfvin wrote:

It only takes 1 penetrating (with luck) and IWND is not reliable (as my CSM opponent sees frequently).

But that's the thing - you're only averaging 1 penetrating hit every 3 turns.

Also, it will usually take *at least* two penetrating hits with a dark lance to inflict significant damage. And one of those, Immobilised, can easily leave the thing still flying around - so it's closer to 3 penetrating hits to permanently kill/disable it.
Back to top Go down
Wulfvin
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 48
Join date : 2015-10-07
Location : Annapolis, MD

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 18:04

What would you suggest then Shredder?
I understand that the math isn't necessarily in your favor, but we have limited options within our Codex to deal with Flyers, and I try not to play mathhammer, I try to play games for fun and if a tactic works it works.

If you manage to get around to it's rear armor, you'll also be alot more effective.



_________________
Kabal of the Tormented Scale
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 18:06

Wulfvin wrote:
What would you suggest then Shredder?

Personally, I'd just try to get out of its limited arc.

Wulfvin wrote:

If you manage to get around to it's rear armor, you'll also be alot more effective.

True.
Back to top Go down
Wulfvin
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 48
Join date : 2015-10-07
Location : Annapolis, MD

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 18:10

The Shredder wrote:
Personally, I'd just try to get out of its limited arc.

That may not always be a possibility. How do you eliminate the target in a DE list?
Hope for some luck with DL Ravagers or HW Scourges?
Take fortifications?
Supplement with Allies? (I hate that we NEED to supplment with Allies to have a competitive list)

_________________
Kabal of the Tormented Scale
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2697
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 18:23

Wulfvin wrote:

That may not always be a possibility. How do you eliminate the target in a DE list?

There is no reliable way. If you have a Razorwing and there are no better targets, by all means shoot it. But I don't see the point of including a "counter" unit when the counter unit sucks at its job anyway. tongue

Wulfvin wrote:

Hope for some luck with DL Ravagers or HW Scourges?

I'd probably go after his other vehicles first, then start shooting the helldrake with those and hope to get lucky.

Wulfvin wrote:

Take fortifications?
Supplement with Allies? (I hate that we NEED to supplment with Allies to have a competitive list)

Probably our best answer, depressingly.
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Fri Jan 22 2016, 19:07

It's not just hell drakes that cause problems, the necron flyers dropping people up close and I can't do squat, or storm talons/Ravens? Whatever the space marine flyers are. They all just appear too frequently and I can't stop it and trying to avoid and survive usually puts me in a bad spot or I can't shoot because of needing to turbo boost. I just want to have reliable defense that can actually bring down fliers
Back to top Go down
killedbydeath
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Sat Jan 23 2016, 07:10

I have two 40k atm... Csm and dark eldar and I hard time with both armies dealing with flyers. Even when I have flyers on the table my self. Dark eldar flyers die if you look at them wrong and csm heldrake have one gun! When I play against sm they flyers have tons of special rules and more weapons that they can fire... But I think every army in the game struggle with flyers. Okay okay that is a lie tau doesn't, but there is not much tau struggle with.

Think you best strategy is to get the flyers to jink or ally in 3 missile broadside with skyfire...
Back to top Go down
jade_angel
Slave
avatar

Posts : 1
Join date : 2016-01-12

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Tue Jan 26 2016, 20:55

You've mentioned the Firestorm Redoubt, what about the Imperial Bunker? That can take a void shield, which can give at least some protection from flaming, plus a quad-gun, plus an ammo cache to let the guys inside reroll 1s to hit. It's not all that expensive, either.

It's really unfluffy, but at this point...
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Tue Jan 26 2016, 21:04

Might as well ally Crimson hunters at this point, de just aren't meant to be anti flyer, gmc, low, etc lol
Back to top Go down
Cerve
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 339
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

PostSubject: Re: Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense   Wed Jan 27 2016, 15:01

.I agree with Shredder, just avoid theme. An MSU style army works better in this scenario.

And remember: more flyers on the sky, less guys on the gorund. Focus on the ground!
Back to top Go down
 
Gettin real sick of hell drakes and flyer nonsense
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Dark Eldar Tactics
-
Jump to: