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 Dreaming about Dark Eldar design

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 10:12

So they kill one of my many squads and the turn after that? If the alpha Strike is done in close combat or through guns doesn't matter, right,

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 13:26

CptMetal wrote:
So they kill one of my many squads and the turn after that? If the alpha Strike is done in close combat or through guns doesn't matter, right,

We are not the only army in the game. Sure, killing a 40 point squad ain't a great deal. But imagine killing off a 200 point squad. Or an entire IG parking lot. It's just a symptom of the state of the game and I'm looking at the game as a whole rather than purely through DE eyes.

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 14:31

Ya... the also significantly buff other space wolf units around them.   If I'm reading this right, under the right circumstances they can move, run twice, then charge, or simply get into range and charge on YOUR turn.  Game breaking, unique rules like that were the tipping point that sent fantasy down the drains in my opinion.

So ya these guys will have storm shields(and thunder hammers) on at least the first rank so like a inquisition henchmen squad they'll have a 3++ until at least the first row is dead, which might be tough with 2 wounds and feel no pain.  Also they'll be 50 points a piece, but will be able to 1 hit grotesques (strength 5 x2) and have 3 attacks base (5 on the charge).  These are also the guys who get to make their full attacks again after they die remember.  Rolling Eyes

And who is going to charge these guys?  Well, no one probably (they have counter attack), but they're too fast to be avoided by most things on foot.  Covens and daemons immediately spring to mind.  Blobs won't even be safe as these guys have so many attacks, that even wielding thunder hammers don't slow them down.
Then there are chaos marines... Compare these to Mutilators, berserkers, possessed, warp talons.  Laugh and throw up your hands  cheers (and resist the urge to melt all your CSM models in a bonfire)

That said - the Daemons update gives me a little hope, as it seems more balanced then the wulfen nonsense, while still responding to the demands fans have made (more/better powers, re-rolling instability, modifying warp storm rolls).
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 15:27

stilgar27 wrote:
Ya... the also significantly buff other space wolf units around them.   If I'm reading this right, under the right circumstances they can move, run twice, then charge, or simply get into range and charge on YOUR turn.

I got to take a look at their datacard. Unless this running twice and charging on the opponent's turn nonsense is a formation rule, they aren't that scary.

Rage, ATSKNF, Curse of the Wulfen(?), Counterattack, Bulky, Accute Senses, FNP.
They are infantry (not beasts, so no 12'' movement, ignoring terrain and Fleet), can run and charge, and can attack after being killed, even if they have attacked in the same round already.

In other words: SHOOT THEM!

Also, a Wulfen with hammer and shield costs 70 points - for a model that hits with "only" S 6 and I 1, mind you.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 15:28

If it matters, they do have 2 wounds each.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:05

Rokuro wrote:

I got to take a look at their datacard. Unless this running twice and charging on the opponent's turn nonsense is a formation rule, they aren't that scary.
It's a formation rule.  2-5 Wulfen units gain a special bonus to the curse which can let them MOVE (not run, my bad) twice per turn, then run, then charge additionally they generate 1 extra attack per 6 to hit.
Rokuro wrote:

In other words: SHOOT THEM!
4 toughness, 2 wounds, 3++, FNP.  24 poison shots should kill one, or 5.5 lances.
Rokuro wrote:

Also, a Wulfen with hammer and shield costs 70 points - for a model that hits with "only" S 6 and I 1, mind you.
Sorry, it's 30 points base, 20 for the storm shield/thunder hammer so 50 total.  Storm hammers are strength x2, and wulfen are strength 5 base (after some debate about blurry images, they are most definitely strength 5).  In other words 50 points for 3-5 S10 ap2 attacks, although those are at I1.  The cheaper axe units behind the shield line are only Strength 8 AP2 but will be swinging at initiative on the charge (with 5 attacks).  There is another alternative for +1 strength lightning claws, but I don't see that as being too popular - even at Strength 6 with shred.


Last edited by stilgar27 on Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:23; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Math'd wrongly)
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:11

I'm glad that our Archon can't even get a S3 AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative, but SWs are allowed a S8 AP2 one that does.

Speaking of, their versions of lightning claws have +1S and AP2 (in addition to Shred, obviously). Just in case they didn't have quite enough AP2 striking at initiative.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 16:43

I did not notice the AP2 - good to see that they don't have to miss out on the bonus to the damage chart, or the ability to ignore 2+ armors just because they want an extra attack...

And of course they can all take Assault d3 bolt pistols, and if even 1 model in the unit has them they all count as having assault grenades.  Because?  Ah because dedicated assault troops without grenades are stupid.  Wish they'd realized this before October 2014.

Just hope whatever over the top units they put out for dark eldar/CSM in the future don't look as stupid as the wulfen.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 17:08

But we can shoot them just like Marines. A 3++ doesn't matter against Splinter Cannon and a Lance instant kills them. Shouldn't be too hard to get the Lance fire from a side without storm shield.


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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 17:42

CptMetal wrote:
But we can shoot them just like Marines.

We can, but it seems like we won't have many turns to do so before they reach us.

CptMetal wrote:
A 3++ doesn't matter against Splinter Cannon and a Lance instant kills them.

Well, that 3++ helps immensely against lances. And 2 wounds with a 3+ save and FNP make them pretty resilient to normal shooting.

CptMetal wrote:
Shouldn't be too hard to get the Lance fire from a side without storm shield.


I often hear stuff like this, but it rarely seems so simple on the table. In my experience, it usually means moving a uni dangerously close to an enemy to get the shot (and that's assuming there's no intervening terrain or such).
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Sun Feb 07 2016, 18:32

stilgar27 wrote:
4 toughness, 2 wounds, 3++, FNP. 24 poison shots should kill one, or 5.5 lances.

In mathhammer, Dark Eldar always lose against any kind of Marines. In reality, not so much.

stilgar27 wrote:
It's a formation rule. 2-5 Wulfen units gain a special bonus to the curse which can let them MOVE (not run, my bad) twice per turn, then run, then charge additionally they generate 1 extra attack per 6 to hit.

Sorry, it's 30 points base, 20 for the storm shield/thunder hammer so 50 total. Storm hammers are strength x2, and wulfen are strength 5 base (after some debate about blurry images, they are most definitely strength 5). In other words 50 points for 3-5 S10 ap2 attacks, although those are at I1. The cheaper axe units behind the shield line are only Strength 8 AP2 but will be swinging at initiative on the charge (with 5 attacks). There is another alternative for +1 strength lightning claws, but I don't see that as being too popular - even at Strength 6 with shred.

Three Wulfen with hammers and shields plus two with axes and grenade launchers is 230 points.
I want to see the player who brings that times five to a 2000 points game... Especially against armies other than Dark Eldar.

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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Dreaming about Dark Eldar design   Mon Feb 08 2016, 01:52


Someone at GW finally figured out that giving new units totally radical effectiveness for their cost will make them sell. A pity they didn't know that for the last 3 tyranid editions...
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