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 1850 for LVO thoughts?

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 08:21

DE CAD #1
Hq
Archon wwp hwg 100
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Elite
5 blaster (4 blasters) born 120
Heavy
3 ravagers 330
Fast
Raider ns lance prow 85
Fortifications
Ageis and comms 70



DE CAD #2
Hq
Archon hwg wwp 100
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Fast
Raider ns lance prow 85
Heavy
3 reapers with ns 420
Elite
5 blaster (4 blasters) born 120

The idea here is that this list has so much flexibility.
I can have all but the raiders on the board and have both long range anti tank (anti horde for that matter) from the reapers and long range anti infantry/teq from the ravagers or use the comms for a counter to alpha strike lists and bring in some power driving in from reserves. The raiders with blaster born and archons will always deep strike and go tank hunting, prows are used for late game to move people off objectives if they survive til then. The venoms and warriors man the comms and go objective grabbing. What do you guys think???


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huymix
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 18:26

First question, why did you split this into 2 CADs? By my reading of the list, it looks like you essentially have:

2 HQs (double Archon)
2 Elites (double blasterborn)
4 Troops (4 min warriors + venoms)
2 Fast Attack (Raiders)
3 Heavy Support (3 Ravagers)
1 Fortification (Aegis + Comms)

You do have Dark Reapers which I'm not quite up on LVO comp but I don't think you can field these guys just straight up in an Dark Eldar CAD. The cheapest you could do if you really want them is an Allied Detachment (Autarch + 3 Windrider jetbikes + Dark Reapers).

(Note: It might be you mean not Reapers (given the amount of points) but rather Voidraven Bombers (since you're saying Heavy) which would mean you would need the double CAD. If you're saying Razorwing then you don't need a double CAD if you reassign the Raiders as dedicated transports)

Composition thoughts (assuming bombers)

The Archon + blasterborn on raider is an expensive suicide unit. Each of those units is 305. So you have in total 610 for 2 units of death which may or may not kill something and likely dies in the next turn. At 305 there is very little in the game that you could take down to make that much of an investment worthwhile. If you're set on keeping the unit, don't deepstrike with the Raider, you have perfect deepstrike anyways and the blasters don't require special spacing to maximize shots.

Aegis + Comms is a bit of a miss since you could just use an imperial bunker with comms and that will actually provide AV 14 protection which is even better than an Aegis. Comms is ok since you have so many fliers, which leads me to:

Bombers/Razorwings are tricky. Some folks love them, some do not. I'm in the definitely not love category for sure due to cost. This is the area where I think you could consider cutting. Ultimately, you're going to have to consider the LVO meta. It's a huge tourney with a lot of different lists but I think there are a few lists I think are pretty safe bets you'll see there. Necron Decurion/Eldar Scatbikes/Imperial Knights/White scars/Gladius/Tau (maybe Riptide wing). For 420 points, I don't think it can handle these armies very well either because they are too durable or too MSU.

Changes I would suggest:

- Warriors all have a blaster - without one they are very, very unimpressive and it's a great buy.
- limit to 1 suicide squad of trueborn - most lists should have at most 1 really juicy "must die" target.
- consider fitting in a void shield generator fortification
- Ravagers might be better off as disintegrators with Centurians etc kicking around. Consider 1 or 2 disintegrator Ravagers.
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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 18:40

Ahhhhh I see the confusion the reapers are the dark eldar reapers! So I needed 3 more heavy slots Smile
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huymix
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 18:50

Still really doesn't clear anything up. I don't know what you mean by dark eldar reapers...

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 19:02

Ah I'm sorry, they are the forge world models they look like a raider with a big @ss haywire blaster on the front. For 135 a piece. They have two firing modes. The anti tank is strength 7 Ap 3 but has a cool haywire rule that you roll d 3 hay wire hits and rolls of a 5 or a 6 gives you a penetrating hit. This can do some nasty damage and has 36" range. It also has a strength 5 ap 4 large blast firing mode at 24" for anti horde. 3 of these has the ability to drop a lot of tanks. Potentially 4 hull points in a single lucky shot to somethings not AV 14. Also I really like the bunker idea and it's the same points! Never thought about that and it looks like flame throwers/ ignores cover won't affect it so that's awesome.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 20:57

Sorry for not knowing the abbreviations, but what is "LVO"?

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 21:05

Las Vegas open
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 22:56

Great list Xm0shcryptX, very nice to see some Reapers. They should give you some much needed long range punch through their armour.

The only thing I've consider is making space for some units that can hunt down dug in infantry.

Your ravagers aren't going to like shooting through cover at guardsmen or marines etc, and they might not be alive to do it late game either.

So, I'm thinking some Medusae could really help you with this. They're only 25 each so if you find anything to cut, consider a few. Perhaps you could substitute a blasterborn squad for them, but its your call.

huymix wrote:

- Warriors all have a blaster - without one they are very, very unimpressive and it's a great buy.

These dudes are not here to hunt targets. They literally just provide a basis for taking venoms and objectives late game.

A blaster is a nice back up option, don't get me wrong, but its 60 points that could quite potentially do nothing in several games. Every conceivable time they want to be going to ground, or running, or staying away from enemies in their venom, is 15 points going down the drain, which is almost half the squad itself. Also, unless you're shooting at exposed MEQ or a MC, no blaster wants to shoot at the same target as a splinter rifle. It splits their focus too much in two opposite directions.

In a big tournament setting, every decision to snap fire or not at a flier, or take a shot at the drop pod instead of running onto the objective itself in case the game ends etc builds up and you get fatigued quite easy. It's a real problem with Dark Eldar in particular. The list is full of difficult decision making units, so having 4 units of cheap, simple and efficient Kabalites is perfectly fine.

Its not like he's missing out on tank hunting units anyway.

huymix wrote:

- Ravagers might be better off as disintegrators with Centurians etc kicking around. Consider 1 or 2 disintegrator Ravagers.

Good call; with so many trueborn and Reapers about, Ravagers could realistically be purely for TEQ eating abilities. But his Ravagers are already all have Disintegrators lol, so he's already got what you recommend.

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Wed Jan 20 2016, 23:19

I really like that idea sir! I could replace the true born and hwg to get 5 medusa and bam perfectly place marine eraser unit
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 01:08

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
I really like that idea sir! I could replace the true born and hwg to get 5 medusa and bam perfectly place marine eraser unit

That's the spirit.

Let us know how it goes over there in LVO. Would be interested to see how much the mono DE perform! pirat

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 02:15

So after the updated recommendations I have formed this

DE CAD #1
Hq
Archon wwp 95
Court of the archon
5 medusa
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Heavy
3 ravagers 330
Fast
Raider ns lance prow 85
Fortifications
Imperial bunker and comms 70



DE CAD #2
Hq
Archon hwg wwp 100
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Fast
Raider ns lance prow 85
Heavy
3 dark eldar reapers with ns 420
Elite
5 blaster born 120

If I could find a better use for 20 points besides prows I could do something else
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 02:25

List looks fun!

I'll be at LVO again this year, but for the first time I will have no Dark Eldar. I'll be bringing Corsairs and CWE

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 16:20

I think you need something to deal with Knights, Superheavies and Gigantic MCs. Darklight guns won't cut it. Wraithguard with a webway Archon is the best ticket. Otherwise, bring a metric ton of Haywire scourges. Knights, Wraithknight, Banebaldes, stormsurges, and Ghostkeels will all f-up this list.

I like that you brought the comms relay. In this meta you need reserve manipulation. There are so many armies these days that can blow you off the board in one or two turns.

RB
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 18:25

just trialed this list last night, 2 reapers ate up his imperial knight. So I'm not super worried. Also being able to wwp blasters into both rear and side to avoid his shield is money. As for GMC de really don't have an answer in general which is sad. I prefer to be pure De and show over confident people who think they will table me that the dark kin are no joke and can bring real fire power and compete
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 18:40

Yeah I have run pure DE and been able to deal with imperial knights fairly well. Wraithknights are a different story. I tend to run a WWP archon with Eldar fire dragons from an aspect host in a fast attack raider. That have killed a an imp knight on the drop when there is one. D flamer guard are usually better at it and can put more hurt on a wraithknight, but just cost a lot more points.
I like my fire dragons from my aspect host

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 18:54

That's a different list I run I do an aspect host with 3 dragons all in wwp raiders it is so so mean hehe
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Thu Jan 21 2016, 22:47

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
just trialed this list last night, 2 reapers ate up his imperial knight.

I knew those reapers were the golden ticket. They're kinda underrated, in my humble opinion. Do they have the drive over vector-type attacks too, or is that only for the Tantalus?

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
I prefer to be pure De and show over confident people who think they will table me that the dark kin are no joke and can bring real fire power and compete

We need more people like you in the hobby, and in the forums here rabbit

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Fri Jan 22 2016, 00:37

Why thank you sir! Sadly only the tantalus is cool and used the blade attack Sad and yes reapers do not get any love at all even though they are amazing and look badass
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Fri Jan 22 2016, 01:15

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Why thank you sir! Sadly only the tantalus is cool and used the blade attack Sad and yes reapers do not get any love at all even though they are amazing and look badass

While still pretty decent at their job, Reapers are leaning towards one trick ponies.

Here's my thoughts:

With only 1 weapon, if your reaper gets shaken, they do very little in your next turn. Your opponent will probably leave it alone, for at least the rest of their turn. If your reaper gets its weapon destroyed, there's a good chance they won't even look at it for the rest of the game.

If the either of these results happened to a raider, it can still can transport units and provide a mobile LOS blocker, since its going to be closer to our enemy. Its also only armour 10, which makes our opponent even happier to keep firing at it to make sure it dies with small arms fire.

So, the raider is far likelier to be killed once crippled, whereas our reaper is probably going to be ignored if it loses its gun or is shaken.

There's 2 upgrades to perhaps consider, if they can buy them:

- The grenade launcher upgrade on the Reaper as it gives it a second weapon. Probably not the best use of points, but at least gives it some extra utility. It also means weapon destroyed results only take off the main gun half as often. It might just be worth it for these two boons.

- Shock prows. You're looking to possibly cut them off the raiders. Simply move them onto your Reapers. It adds a perfect supplementary role to them late game if they're stripped of their gun or are shaken, as they can suicide into tanks or push infantry off cover/objectives.

Either of these upgrades will add to the cost of the Reapers, but give them either additional offense, durability, or utility, or possibly all 3.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Fri Jan 22 2016, 01:26

Maybe true I could get tgl's on them if I take of the raider prows. That's what's nice about having 3 Smile there is almost too many vehicles to deal with. And since they come with sails stock they are good at grabbing late game objectives
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Fri Jan 22 2016, 01:53

Xm0shcryptX wrote:
And since they come with sails stock they are good at grabbing late game objectives

Do they have prows for free too? pirat

I've not seen their exact rules entry in a long time I'm afraid.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Fri Jan 22 2016, 02:03

I don't believe they do. It wouldn't make much sense because the huge gun is where the prow would be
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Sun Jan 24 2016, 06:24

I have made a 3rd version I think It's even better than the previous 2 any updated thoughts?

DE CAD #1
Hq
Archon wwp 95
Court of the archon
4 medusa 100
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Heavy
3 ravagers 330
Fast
Raider lance 60
Fortifications
Imperial bunker and comms relay 70



DE CAD #2
Hq
Archon blaster wwp shadow field 150
Troop
5 warriors 40
5 warriors 40
Venom 65
Venom 65
Fast
5 scourge 4 heat lance 120
Heavy
3 dark eldar reapers 405
Fortifications
Imperial bunker quad cannon 100

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Sun Jan 24 2016, 06:31

I think a Void Shield Generator would go a long ways into protecting your dark Eldar. They really help lots against alpha strike armies.

The bastion is about the same size as a VSG

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 for LVO thoughts?   Sun Jan 24 2016, 06:46

How does this VSG work though ??
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