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Chrisjuarbe
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PostSubject: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 12:49

Ok tomorrow I'm having a battle against Necron 3,000pts. My friend will a Necron tomb citadel. I will have a eldar wraithknight. any tips on destroying the power crucible fast?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 13:00

Lances.

I've had to look it up, but its what, AV14? Each Pen rolls a d6, and on a 5+ the componen t is destroyed.
So each penetrating hit has a 1/3 chance of destroying it. That means you've got a fairly good chance with just one Ravager, but directing a few Lances at it from different sources would work quite well.
Ok, the 3+ invuln makes that even more difficult, but looking at it (and with no clear indication as to how many Hull Points it has) I still think it'll be easier than a Monolith because you only need one pen to get through the invuln and get a high roll after.

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Chrisjuarbe
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 13:56

how does the wraithknight with d-weapons work with this fortification.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 15:10

Exactly as well as against a vehicle.
Better if you get a Deathblow, as with that you're doing multiple Penetrating hits, each of which will ignore the Invulnerable save and have a 1/3 chance of destroying the component you're attacking outright.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 15:27

Quote :
That means you've got a fairly good chance with just one Ravager,...

0,22222 pens with a 5+ result per Ravager (before invul! after invul it is 0,074) is hardly "a fairly good chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 16:31

Squidmaster wrote:
Exactly as well as against a vehicle.
Better if you get a Deathblow, as with that you're doing multiple Penetrating hits, each of which will ignore the Invulnerable save and have a 1/3 chance of destroying the component you're attacking outright.

Sorry mate. Deathblow is for toughness, and its one hit doing 6+d6 wounds with no saves allowed. Devestating hit is one penetrating hit that does 6+d6 hullpoints. So even if you rolled a 6 and ignored its 3++ on a D shot, it still only dies on a 5+ as it has no hullpoints.

Honestly, if hes sinking 300 + points into a piece of terrain, that has to be deployed in his zone and has primarily a 24" range shooty army... see where Im going with this? He'll most likely park destroyers on the citadel, and really a 3++ isnt a massive improvement, its more about giving the Monolith et al a 3++. Which, if you hit that with a D Shot and roll a 6 it ignores the 3++ and dies.

Also that 3++ is any model on the tomb citadel, not just necrons.

Having played against it? My advice is ignore it. Until he turtles everyone on it, then win on objectives Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   16/1/2016, 17:26

ok thank you guys.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 13:59

How about tactics against non-Apocalypse Necrons?

My main oppenent is Crons, and I am having a hard time finding units that are good vs his pile of RP rolls.

The units that seem to be worthwhile are:
Grots
Beasts (khymare)
Pain engines
Ravagers (with dissies)

Any other suggestions? The razorwing is an amazing model, so I will be adding it to my army, but I cant seem to make it do much regardless as to its configuration.

Help?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 14:48

The problem with the Razorwing is that none of its missiles have a decent AP or Ignores Cover so even a basic Necron Warrior will usually have a 75% chance of surviving a wound (and that's after you roll to hit/scatter and to wound).

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 15:12

Exactly. You need to get like 10 guys under all 4 blast markers to make it even possibly worthwhile. And we all know this is impossible (or your oppenent is a beginner). So I guess I will just give it a splinter cannon and leave everything else stock.

So my question still stands, what are the top tier anti-necron units?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 15:18

Freakshows!

Either bombard them with Psychic Shrieks and Soulfright Weaponry or just lower their leadership to the point where winning an assault by even one wound will have them breaking and destroyed by sweeping assault where there RP is of no use.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 16:46

Hmm, what you say makes sense. Psychic shriek isnt an option (I dont like allies), but the grenade launchers would certainly work.

How do you deal with wraiths? Shooting them while they have RP is pointless. I am guessing some pain engines are the only thing that can really stand up to them, and only to tar-pit them for a few turns.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   22/2/2016, 16:47

If they have RP, shoot the Spyder!

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   24/2/2016, 00:49

I apocalypse I have had the best results with freak show tactics because it bypasses a lot of the necron strengths , that and my revenant Titan, those d templates wreck some face.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   24/2/2016, 13:49

Skari, first off, I would like to say I love your youtube battle reports. You are one of the few guys who make them a reasonable length, and you add just enough detail for them to be both interesting and informative.

The freakshow is clearly the best tactic for DE that has been developed, but it seems to be more of an eldar tactic than a specific DE one (as shown in your One Spirit lists).

And yes, D would be awesome for dealing with wraiths. Its unfortunate that our voidraven is only S9 and not D
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   24/2/2016, 15:31

I also have 2 Necron regulars in my club, although one has just switched over to Tau (yay?). What I've found best it to gang up on them, decide on one flank and just whittle them down. Most of their stuff is fairly slow, and I think they have only 2 guns that shoot further than 30in (D-Day Arc and Staff of something on a char).

It's slow work and not very rewarding, but so far I've had good results. Necrons seem to be easier to divide than other armies.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   13/3/2016, 20:59

Hi all,

it's been a while. I need advice against necrons also. I have a few questions:
1) Does the lance rule works against Quantum Shielding? In other words, do I pen against 12 or 13?
2) With all their insane armor, toughness, protocols with formation bonuses... What is the best tactics against them? I dont own grotesques, but I have access to Harlequins.

My plan is to use a few freakshow tactics (Shadowseer MoS + AoM) with lots of AT and try to divide them. Nothing really orginal.

Thanks!
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Skari
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   13/3/2016, 21:13

Lance indeed works against shielding,

Tactica? Well it really depends what necrons you are facing CAD or decurion... And what support formation they brought canoptec or destroyers...

I love grotesques, but when charging them make sure you do so with something that will then wipe them out on the sweeping advance, harlies are good but they are fragile so as long as you get them there !

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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   14/3/2016, 23:54

Skari wrote:
Lance indeed works against shielding,

This is what I also believe, but the necron player sent me this: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Necrontyr_Online/topic/10944714/1/

The conclusion seems to be:
Q: - Does Quantum Shielding protect from weapons with the Lance special rule? (Page 115)
A: - Yes. Both are set-value modifiers. Lance is in the BRB; however, QS is in the codex which is an advance rule that trumps the BRB.

Do you have any link/source stating that lance works against shielding?

Skari wrote:
Tactica? Well it really depends what necrons you are facing CAD or decurion... And what support formation they brought canoptec or destroyers...

I love grotesques, but when charging them make sure you do so with something that will then wipe them out on the sweeping advance, harlies are good but they are fragile so as long as you get them there !

I expect to see destroyers + destroyer lord, warriors/immortals + Ghost arks/flyers, tomb blades, scarabs...

I got some success with freakshow. But as I want to play a CAD my only Harlies options are Heroes path or maybe a cast of players. Dark Artisan could be another option.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   15/3/2016, 00:50

Razor wing is the bane of scarabs

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   15/3/2016, 01:29

Mononcule wrote:

The conclusion seems to be:
Q: - Does Quantum Shielding protect from weapons with the Lance special rule? (Page 115)
A: - Yes. Both are set-value modifiers. Lance is in the BRB; however, QS is in the codex which is an advance rule that trumps the BRB.

Do you have any link/source stating that lance works against shielding?
I was going to correct Skari with that reasoning, but I decided to double-check the Necron codex: Quantum Shielding isn't actually a special rule, it's a piece of wargear (and not one that confers a special rule), so it could be argued that it doesn't actually trump Lance, meaning Lance would indeed work against it.

Lance also works if using the logical approach of sequencing.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   15/3/2016, 07:51

In my country tournament judges decided, that Quantum Shielding is special rule, and Lance doesn't work against them. The way of thinking is exactly as described by Mononcule. But I thing it depends on country or even club in which you play.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   18/3/2016, 10:12

Played against a Decurion Wednesday at the club and got absolutely smashed so would also welcome any pointers.

He played with:

Lord with 9 Lych Guard
10 Immortals with Carbines
10 Immortals with Tesla
2 x 10 Necron Warriors
Tomb Spider / Wraith formation with 5 wraiths
9 Tomb Blades

I used:

Archon (shadowfield, webway portal, agoniser)
Court (2 Medusae, 3 Sslyth, Raider with Nightshields)
3 x 5 Kabalites with Blaster and Haywire Sybarite
2 x 5 Kabalites with Blaster and Raider
2 x Ravager with Lances
1 x Ravager with Disintegrator Cannons
1 x Razorwing with Disintegrator Cannons

First turn Venoms left the Tomb Spider on 1W and everything else at the Tomb Blades and killed 3 of them (3+ save, 4+ cover, 4+ reanimination re-rolling 1's)

They move up and kill 1 Raider and a hull point on a venom

Second turn I come in with the Archon and Razorwing, Archon lands behind him closest model as the Lord trying to take him out as the re-roll 1's is making it horrific. Razorwing lands 24 wounds with missiles across 3 units, medusae cause 7 more wounds across 2 units, Archon and Sslyth cause a couple as well as the Disintegrator on the Raider. At the end of that absolute barrage, 2 Necrons die...

Everything else in the army fires at the Wraiths, 3 Venoms, 2 Raiders, 5 units of Kabalites, all of the Ravagers and... kill 1 Wraith (3+ invuln // 4+ FNP // Decent rolling but not astonishing)

Most of the rest of the game he's now in rapid fire and all my boats start to go down, mopping up for him mostly and I concede Turn 5.

I know the Archon's Court wasn't ideal for this matchup and it's very expensive, so I should probably drop those for more kabalite units, but what else can you do to try and take out Necrons?!?

We worked it out afterwards and it'd take 15 Venoms firing at the Wraiths to kill 5 of them, or the equivalent of 5 Venoms for 3 turns uninterrupted without jinking. (180 shots, 120 hits, 60 wounds, 20 failed saves, 10 failed FNP, 5 dead)

Does anyone else have any advice on how I can give the guy a decent match?

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   18/3/2016, 10:59

The only thing I can think of is close combat and sweep them. So basically a grotesquerie and Corpsethief claw coupled with Armour of Misery.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark eladr vs Necron   18/3/2016, 15:50

Ya, the Harvest Wraiths are almost unkillable. Ive been trying to Mathammer the best weapon to kill them, and my solution so far is ... run away?

It definately seems like a good idea to play keep-away until at least turn 3 when we get FNP.
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