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 Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 06:17

So, brief backstory (feel free to skip, question at the end in bold)

Was meant to have a 2500 point game against regular CSM opponent, who wanted a go against me Dark Eldar/Eldar list with his CSM+2 Imperial Knights.
In the end we had to settle for 2x500 point games, as GW store only had small tables available.
Due to his atrocius lists, and my somewhat better list, he got tabled twice.
So he's making some changes to his larger list for future games. Which leads to my question-

Opponent plans on running a Lvl 3 Unmarked Chaos Sorcerer on a bike with familiar, running with a Axe of Blind Fury Lord (also on bike. Is that legal? Marked and Unmarked? No idea) in a unit of Spawn(3 I think).

So how can I combat this (slightly average) wannabe Deathstar?
My first thought was sheer weight of fire.
My second thought was a Culexus in Droppod, supported by aforementioned firepower (I don't care about Unbound)

Cheers Commorragh
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 06:53

Fully legal as long as the sorcerer doesn't take a mark.

Weight of fire. Easily.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 07:19

Yep. Just pour fire from Venoms and warriors into them until they're dead.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 09:21

Taking bikes and spawns against DE as an improvment for your list is kinda counter-intuitive decision...

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 17:21

Azdrubael wrote:
Taking bikes and spawns against DE as an improvment for your list is kinda counter-intuitive decision...

This guys lists can be ....... strange.
I've killed Juggerlords with Spawn, Biker Lords, Nurgle Oblits etc. Poison is a wonderful thing.

So it's not the composition I'm worried about., it's the space magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 18:52

You can't do anything against his magic except kill the psyker. Maybe if you'd take some of our boring cousins...

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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 18:56

The HoW attacks from reavers auto hit. That's one way to get around invisibility.
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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Thu Jan 07 2016, 19:40

lament.config wrote:
The HoW attacks from reavers auto hit. That's one way to get around invisibility.

Interesting. I've needed a reason to paint up my Reavers.
I assume that means the Harlequins Embrace (?) with its D3 HoW would also do some damage.
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Fri Jan 08 2016, 23:12

Sure does. I like all Embraces + Troupe Master Caress with my harlequins, not as good at anti-MEQ of TEQ as Kisses but should kill 8 Marines from a squad of 10 over two rounds of combat while you lose one in exchange. Assuming you get the charge with 6 clowns, and no casualties from shooting on either side.

2-3 clown posses crashing into his unit will do it if you're running the Masque detachment. Reavers are great too, and you can supplement with Cast of Players in a Raider if you really want to use those Embraces and have some psychic support while you're at it. Bonus points if you cast Fog of Dreams on his unit while it's invisible.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 00:43

Lol Fog of Dreams. Love that power, though bonus bonus points if you just mirror of minds his lord out of existence ;D

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 09:57

What's fog of dreams?

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 10:23

Reverse-invisibility malediction Harlequins have access to. Affected unit only ever hits on 6s.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 11:58

Neat. Do I have to make a hit with the power?

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 12:19

Nope, only witchfires have to roll to hit so you're good casting a malediction. If your Shadowseer rolls it, it's a fun thing to cast. Only issue is that invisible units may have psykers in them, so there's a higher chance they'll Deny.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sat Jan 09 2016, 17:16

Useful anyway. That's cool.

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sun Jan 10 2016, 03:10

So the best choice is simple weight of firepower
OR
HoW via Jetbikes/Harlies
IR
Super Secret Bonus Points for running a Shadowseer and rolling perfectly on phantasmy? and drinking enemies tears
I actually just painted up a Shadowseer, so I may try for the bonus points....

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sun Jan 10 2016, 04:22

This may seem a strange suggestion, but you could just let him have it. Take A TaC list and play around the invisible deathstar like you didn't know it was coming.

Tailoring is a bit of a crutch that can really hamper your tactical abilities, and if his lists are as non competitive as you indicated, you should have no need of a counter. Imo.

Just a suggestion.

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sun Jan 10 2016, 06:07

The Red King wrote:
This may seem a strange suggestion, but you could just let him have it.  Take A TaC list and play around the invisible deathstar like you didn't know it was coming.

Tailoring is a bit of a crutch that can really hamper your tactical abilities,  and if his lists are as non competitive as you indicated, you should have no need of a counter.  Imo.

Just a suggestion.

Fair call.
Like any Archon, I enjoy my scheming. How much said scheming influences actual list depends.

A shadowseer will most likely make its way in, just because I used AoM for the 1st time last game, and I guess adding Mask of Secrets will make my Grot bombs even better.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sun Jan 10 2016, 11:33

Fair enough by far. I love the shadowseers powers.

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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Sun Jan 10 2016, 15:52

To deal with invisibility with dark eldar we only have Reavers maxing cluster caltrops, but if the opposing deathstar has 2+/3+ armor on top of invisibility (as is common in meta lists) It wont pose a serious enough threat.

I personally recommend an allied masque with all troupes armed with caresses. every 6 to hit will be an AP2 wound ignoring T. Thats how I approach invisible ravenwing wolfstars, and if it works vs these, it will definetly crush anything a CSM can throw at you.

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Mon Jan 11 2016, 10:42

The Red King wrote:
This may seem a strange suggestion, but you could just let him have it.  Take A TaC list and play around the invisible deathstar like you didn't know it was coming.

Tailoring is a bit of a crutch that can really hamper your tactical abilities,  and if his lists are as non competitive as you indicated, you should have no need of a counter.  Imo.

Just a suggestion.

I totally agree with this. I too am a fan of running "tournament ready lists" against as many opponents as possible. I find that taloring only gives enjoyment if that one game, but beating him with a list that plays well against many opponents means your earning feathers in your cap, so to speak

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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Mon Jan 11 2016, 18:22

flakmonkey wrote:
So, brief backstory (feel free to skip, question at the end in bold)


Opponent plans on running a Lvl 3 Unmarked Chaos Sorcerer on a bike with familiar, running with a Axe of Blind Fury Lord (also on bike. Is that legal? Marked and Unmarked? No idea) in a unit of Spawn(3 I think).



Sorry a little late to the party

This is not legal. Axe of Blind Fury requires the model to take Mark of Khorne, which not available to any sorcerer. Bike part is okay. Given your main issue this is pretty minor as he cold swap it out for the Black Mace or switch to Crimson Slaughter and use one of their relics
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Mon Jan 11 2016, 20:40

Quote :
This is not legal. Axe of Blind Fury requires the model to take Mark of Khorne, which not available to any sorcerer.

Quote :
running with a Axe of Blind Fury Lord (also on bike.

He has a sorcerer that shares a unit with an khorne lord. Not a sorcerer with axe.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Mon Jan 11 2016, 22:45

1++ wrote:
The Red King wrote:
This may seem a strange suggestion, but you could just let him have it.  Take A TaC list and play around the invisible deathstar like you didn't know it was coming.

Tailoring is a bit of a crutch that can really hamper your tactical abilities,  and if his lists are as non competitive as you indicated, you should have no need of a counter.  Imo.

Just a suggestion.

I totally agree with this. I too am a fan of running "tournament ready lists" against as many opponents as possible. I find that taloring only gives enjoyment if that one game, but beating him with a list that plays well against many opponents means your earning feathers in your cap, so to speak


If you really wanna know, I play in a group of 3 dudes. One is pretty good (Marines of 30k and 40K variety, plays in tournements), one is average but plays often (CSM. But plays in GW so very average competition) and me bein rather average (infrequent games and I'm always swapping armies DE/Astra/Renagdes)

Good dude wanted to "try out" his next tourney list (30K Iron Hands, but playin in 40K), he wanted a hard game, so I made what I considered a pretty viscous list. Did well and actually beat him (It hardly ever happens that either me or CSM dude beat him)
CSM dude heard all about this and wanted to have a go against my list.

2500 Point List:
 

I'm pretty confident I wouldve taken the CSM dude too. But Invis is something I've not played against before. Hence the thread.


Last edited by flakmonkey on Mon Jan 11 2016, 22:51; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : My grammar and spelling blows. And it took me a bit to get the spoiler thingy happening)
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Taking on (Chaos) Invisibilty   Mon Jan 11 2016, 23:19

But if he wants to play against your list doesn't that mean unchanged? Or did he just challenge you?

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