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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Dec 18 2016, 05:28

Ran a test game with a Masque detachment, a Corsairs CAD, and a Craftworld allied. The Allied consisted of a Jetseer with scatbikes and a Hemlock, the Corsairs the aforementioned Void Dreamer with 2 Cloud Dancers equipped with splinter cannons and a VSG. Masque detachment went heavily into 1 unit of clowns with kisses and caresses. I played against my friend's Orks and he won, so that tells you how good this death star is Razz However, I will say the death star itself survived with all its ICs intact. The rerollable 2++ combined with H&R and the special weapons made it pretty rugged. It's just that the rest of the army fell apart around it. I'm guessing with some practice I'll get the hang of running the clowns but until then it's gonna be a struggle to use this list. Perhaps swapping the Grotesques in for the Craftworlders would be a better move after all.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Dec 18 2016, 05:44

What is a VSG?

What exactly did you do? The combo your describing sounds like a horribly inefficient means to accomplish your goal.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Dec 18 2016, 06:02

VSG = Void Shield Generator

Basically I ran 3 Shadowseers, one in each Troupe. One FA slot was a Starweaver while the other was Skyweavers with haywire. I brought a basic Voidweaver as well. Half the clowns had Kisses, the other half had Caresses. The HQs were in one 8 man clown unit while the others were kept to minimal size. Things fell apart because I didn't know what to do with my jetbikes and my 2 small units of clowns while the death star was moving around punching things. The smaller units got taken out relatively easily by Mechanobz and mass shoota boyz while the Hemlock was pulverized by 3 Dakka Jets in formation.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Dec 18 2016, 06:31

What did you bring in your CAD?
Prince and Void Dreamer?
Loadouts?
Masque has a 3 troop requirement, but you did a 50/50 weapon split. Did you mix and match weapons within squads?
How did you outfit the harliestar specifically?

These comments are not surprising either. I have often found that beating a properly built ork list is more akin to defusing a bomb or jenga then most other matchups. Being BS2 doesn't matter with enough shots.

The flyers scenario should also be treated as normal. The Hemlock is just a check. It'll be basically worthless except for when your opponent can't deal with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Dec 19 2016, 04:48

My CAD was just 2 units of Cloud Dancers with Splinter Cannons, a Void Dreamer, and a VSG. I didn't see that I needed a Prince until I reread the rules later, not that it would have made much difference. Kinda makes me wonder why they made that distinction but oh well, he's not exactly a bad use of points in and of himself.

Void Dreamer was a level 3 psyker with a shadowfield. Jetseer only had the bike. Shadowseers were all level 2 and one had a Mask of Secrets.

I mixed and matched, each squad was pretty evenly split between the weapons.

The Harlistar was the following:

A Jetseer for Fortune and to avoid pinning from Corsair perils.
A Shadowseer with the MoS for Veil of Tiers and leadership bombs.
A Void Dreamer for a 2++ invul save in close combat. Careful positioning made sure that 2++ ate almost everything.
About 8 clowns evenly split between kisses and Caresses.

I rolled for powers strangely and I didn't execute my moves well so the star got bogged in a lot of useless combats. Moving forward, forcing me to take a Prince will only make this more substantial a list as I can take items from the Dark Eldar artifacts list which are some of the best out of all the Eldar factions IMO. Additionally I can give him mastery level 1 and thus give him Divination duties, allowing me to reroll hits in close combat for all those juicy 6s. Also another shadowfield never hurts.

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Dec 19 2016, 09:59

Was jsut thinking that the addition of a Collector Prince would let you take the Armour of Misery which would make for even nastier Psychic Shrieks.

Question: if you have a Shadowseer and a Farseer in a single unit both with Psychic Shriek, can you Shriek twice?

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Dec 19 2016, 10:02

@Ynneadwraith wrote:
Question: if you have a Shadowseer and a Farseer in a single unit both with Psychic Shriek, can you Shriek twice?

Nope. Some people thought otherwise, despite the rulebook saying in bold print "no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase", but the recent FAQ confirmed that when the rulebook says you can't do something it means you can't do it.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Dec 19 2016, 11:12

Gotcha, so you'd have to be really cheeky and detach your Farseer from the unit in the movement phase...and watch as they're shot off the board in the next phase :S

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Dec 19 2016, 17:00

You also don't need to worry about the pinning since MoS makes you fearless.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 10 2017, 20:59

@Ynneadwraith wrote:
Gotcha, so you'd have to be really cheeky and detach your Farseer from the unit in the movement phase...and watch as they're shot off the board in the next phase :S

Or detach the Shadowseer who can Veil themself (have to be ML2 of course), then the Harlistar can tank for a round with the Shadowfield.

I'm also trying to figure out how best to mix Harlequins and Corsairs, as I feel the latter could complement the former with such powerful jump-shoot-jump capabilities... but I really don't 'get' ranged combat in this game yet. My first army was Harlequins and things like heavy weapon selection and how best to equip units of shooty guys is almost alien to me. All I know is Shuriken!
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Thu Jan 12 2017, 07:28

Do Reavers bring much to a Corsair jetbike force? They provide rending s6 hits, but Corsairs aren't lacking in s6 semirending to begin with
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Thu Jan 12 2017, 07:30

HnR bodyguard for a prince on a cloud dancer with a shard of Anaris, drugs, or reaper of the outer dark.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 05:29

Seeing the new Eldar model previews today decided to have me re-examine Corsairs.

I remember loving the idea of Dual Dissonance Pistol Voidstorm bands with a Divination Shimmer Baron for getting 18ish S6 AP2(After average dissonance activations) pistol shots off then scurrying away from Reckless Abandon and Jetpacks.

Has anyone ever tried a unit of the above?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 05:42

I sort of have. I prefer a shadowfield as a 4+ LOS followed by a 2++ is worth the premium over a unit wide 5++, and if the baron is in the middle of the squad they will always be the closest body to LOS onto. I also don't take a max-squad. Voidstorm bands due to their curious base cost actually lose relative value the more you bring. The first 5 folks are less than 13pts per model. Adding another 5 just brings that cost up to around 14.5ppm without actually granting you enough increase in benefit for it to matter. Bear in mind dissonance pistols only get vibropulse against people as it explicitly states TO WOUND.

Also where are you getting your numbers? At S5AP4 to start S6AP2 will never happen. +1/-1 every  6 to hit. 6 folks putting out 12 shots is going to give you on average 8 S7AP2 shots. 7 folks is all you need mathematically optimal odds to get S8AP1.

At between 28 and 30 pts per model though I think the unit is far too expensive and fragile to risk making an attached baron a psyker.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 07:10

No idea what i was thinking when I typed that

10 guys firing 20 shots twin linked would hit about 18 times with two to three 6s to hit. Making the pistols S7/8 AP2/1 on average.

I'm not sure where your getting your math. 7 Guys firing 14 shots is only two 6s, making them S7 AP2. Those extra two shots only give a 17% chance to get to S8 AP1. 10 guys firing 20 shots without twin linked is 13ish hits so only two 6s to hit.

Unless my battlescribe has gone totally haywire

It is really weird that they cost less for taking MSU but I cant resist 20 dissonance pistols firing away
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 07:32

I included the baron in my calculation. Which puts sixes occurrence count up to 2.66 which is the highest return shift in utility you get, the equivalent of 8 members in the squad. Even a maxed out squad with a baron can't hit 4 on average occurances.

As for the maxed out squad I get it, it's gonna be hella expensive ptswise, but I get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 09:02

22 shots (baron plus 10 voidstorm) is 13.3 + 1.66 for 15 hits. Rerolls on the remaining 7 is another 4.6 hits. Rounding down you have 19 hits. 1 in 4 of these is a 6 (3+ to hit gives you a 1 in 4 hits being a 6) - so you easily get S9, Ap1 and can even reasonably be confident of S10.

The issue is that these weapons have no effect on vehicles

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 23 2017, 20:25

I'm not worried about vehicles, I'm worried about Riptides and Wraithknights. I'll have Balestrikes in Sky Burners to deepstrike into side armor. If I can deepstrike the Voids, delete an MC then RA/Thrust move away and spread out while I have other forces pushing the line for threat overload I'll be happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 24 2017, 01:44

The problem is efficiency - the squad I mentioned is 400+ points... and it will get a single shot off and then get deleted far to easily. I can get 5 Hornets with pulse lasers for the same price which put out 20 S8, AP2 shots a turn from 48" away... or a pair of kinetic shrouded warp hunters...

Either of these options deletes riptides, wraith knights and so on with ease and is far more likely to be around in at least some form a turn later

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 24 2017, 16:42

I'm used to playing in 30k, so using expensive things to their full effect and keeping them alive is something I'm used to. Plus, monetary-wise, they are substantially cheaper. I also have a soft spot for dual pistols and play zone mortalis a lot.

I wasn't asking about tournament grade tactics with them, just if anyone had fun with them. I'm going to make them for rule of cool alone and was curious if anyone else did it and if anything notable happened.

That being said there are also a lot of variables on the battlefield. Too many to just write them off as being automatically deleted after they fire. Sure they will obviously be a threat, but the idea is that you have multiple threats up front.

For example, use the Voidstorms to pop in and erase a riptide on a flank. Now that that riptide is dead that unit of voids earned back a chunk of their points. Then say you have a unit of hornets sniping vehicles, maybe some malevolents or grotesques are pushing the line and threatening the enemy scoring units on objectives. Is that opponent going to revenge kill the Voids and win you the game? Or are they going to cut the riptide off as a loss and focus on the units about to kill his units off the objectives? With the riptide dead on the flank he will need long range weapons to hit the voids, because they just moved 3d6" away and were perhaps not close to them in the first place. Does he spend it shooting the Voids? Or try to take down the hornets that are a direct threat. That's just one example out of potentially infinite scenarios that could happen. It's one thing I learned playing 30k. My costly heavy hitters might get hate killed, but that's fire that didn't come after my scoring and helped me win the game.

There are just too many potential scenarios to write the voids off completely. Sure there are more cost effective methods if you want pure tournament grade crunch. But dual pistol space pirates.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Apr 07 2017, 09:43

Hi all, just starting a new corsairs project and had a couple of questions that have cropped up while reading this thread

1. For those of you putting void dreamers with malevolents- isn't the -1 leadership from their special rule to all elder models really dangerous, especially with the brutal perils table? Or doesn't it apply to attached characters?

2. What is the opinion of a 3 man felarch bike squad as a bodyguard for a combat Prince? With either venom blades or power weapons (spears?)

Cheers!
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Apr 07 2017, 11:55

*Climbs out of his grave*

"Ah, a visitor! Would you care to join me for a cup of formaldehyde?"

@Cheesy101 wrote:
Hi all, just starting a new corsairs project and had a couple of questions that have cropped up while reading this thread

1. For those of you putting void dreamers with malevolents- isn't the -1 leadership from their special rule to all elder models really dangerous, especially with the brutal perils table? Or doesn't it apply to attached characters?

No, the -1 Ld doesn't apply to attached characters. Also, it's worth noting that Malevolents are Fearless, which severely blunts the effect of most Ld penalties. The only real danger is to other units if you roll the Warp Terrors result. However, that's a pretty big risk even without the Malevolents.

I think the best plan (regardless of what unit the Void Dreamer is with) is to only put him near other units when absolutely necessary (i.e. you plan to use one of his powers on that unit this turn). Given the mobility of Corsairs, I don't think this will be too much of an issue - especially since you can move out of range during the movement phase, cast your psychic powers in relative safety, and then move those units back during the assault phase.  

@Cheesy101 wrote:

2. What is the opinion of a 3 man felarch bike squad as a bodyguard for a combat Prince? With either venom blades or power weapons (spears?)  

I'm not a fan, to be honest. I don't think that the Felarch upgrade is good value at the best of times, and with three of them plus upgraded weapons it seems like you're paying a lot of points for not much gain. My choice for a Prince's bodyguard would be either 3 stock Cloud Dancers or else 3 Cloud Dancers with the standard long-range weapons (usually Scatter Lasers, but I could see myself using Shuriken Cannons for a Prince's escort). Basically, I'd rather either keep the bodyguard cheap or keep them doing what they're best at (shooting), and rely on the Prince's own skill when it comes to combat.

My reasoning is that (even with the Felarchs) there aren't many units I'd want to charge into in the first place, especially with a relatively fragile warlord. So if the unit enters combat at all, it's likely to be against weak or severely depleted units. And in those circumstances I'd rather just rely on the Prince, keeping the unit cheap and potentially having some long-range firepower as well.

However, that's from a purely competitive standpoint. Don't be afraid to ignore it for reasons of fluff, models, theme or general fun. I can tell you that my own armies invariably include some less competitive choices simply because I prefer the fluff or like the models better. Smile

If you're just interested in fielding a melee unit, then I'd say Felarch Jetbikes are about as good as it gets in the Corsairs book. In terms of weapons, I'd probably lean towards the Venom Blades - both for their cheaper cost and because they make up for S3. Power Lances aren't bad (and do match the AP of the Prince's Void Sabre), but I'm wary of them in units without the Hit & Run rule - especially when I might be using them to tie up enemy units for multiple turns.

Another possibility would be to start off your list with a stock Cloud Dancer unit as a sort of placeholder, and then construct the rest of your list before upgrading them. Basically, see how many points you have left over and what you can afford with regard to Felarch upgrades and weapon options.


Hope this helps and best of luck with Corsairs. Very Happy
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Apr 07 2017, 17:34

Why wouldn't the -1 leadership penalty apply to the attached IC? I agree that the fearless mitigates the risk, but I'd think the IC would still be at -1 leadership.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Apr 07 2017, 17:53

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Why wouldn't the -1 leadership penalty apply to the attached IC? I agree that the fearless mitigates the risk, but I'd think the IC would still be at -1 leadership.

Hmm, I don't think so. The exact wording is:

"Any unit, friendly or enemy, with the faction Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Eldar Corsairs or Harlequins suffers a -1 modifier to their Ld value while within 12" of at least one Corsair Malevolent Band."

(Emphasis mine.)

As far as I'm aware, units don't count as being in range of themselves for this sort of purpose (so a Malevolent Band won't be affected by its own aura unless specifically noted). And attached characters don't count as separate units but rather part of the unit to which they're attached, so they should be likewise unaffected by the aura.

(Obviously this assumes a single Malevolent Band, as two would definitely affect each other along with any attached characters.)
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Apr 07 2017, 18:29

@The Shredder wrote:

As far as I'm aware, units don't count as being in range of themselves for this sort of purpose (so a Malevolent Band won't be affected by its own aura unless specifically noted).

I'm not so sure about this. Also, while ICs count as being a part of the unit they join, they're still a unit in and of themselves as well. While they are a part of the unit "for all rules purposes", that doesn't mean they cease to be a unit themselves, as evidenced by the FAQs and rules that tell us killing an IC still counts as "killing a unit" even if it is attached to another unit that is not also killed.

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