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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri May 27 2016, 15:37

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:

I was thinking of telekinesis for a free reckless abandon from the primaris, so that I could come closer to my target,

Reckless abandon specifically prohibits getting closer to the thing you shot. Your movement has to be neutral or AWAY from your shooting target.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri May 27 2016, 17:37

The plan is to shoot something else to get closer to the intended target. I thought it was implicitly understood.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri May 27 2016, 23:00

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
The plan is to shoot something else to get closer to the intended target. I thought it was implicitly understood.

Yeah, not really, since there is only 1 of many available strategies with corsairs that would allow such a tactic to be useful. So it's important to be explicit rather than implicit in an area where the intent is to convey tactics and instructional information to people who may otherwise be unaware of said strategies. Wink

I was just making sure you were not one of the aforementioned people who didn't know, as someone who didn't know you couldn't do that would have worded it exactly as you did.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat May 28 2016, 11:38

Ok, Over to my prince;

I have a price with JP, Mask of Secrets and ML1. (Divination). And shimmershield.

I am planning to put him in a titan-breaker 10 DL-balestrike squad.

But he seems costly for giving a unit reroll to hit (Occasionally ignore cover if I'm lucky) and a 5+ save.

I could replace his shimmershield, JP, MoS and ML1 for reaper, void sabre, JB and forceshield, and have like 10 points spare for something, I.E: Tanglefield grenades? There's barely any 10 pts options, and even less 5pts options in our army that I find worth taking. (Maybe I Could give his forceshield to a baron, and take away the barons ML1, and give my prince a Shadowfield? Or just shadowfield + ghostplate and nothing to the baron?).

And maybe take personal Warlord traits instead of tactical warlord traits.

Which one would be better?

EDIT: Or Maybe even Voidsabre + Cegorachs Rose! Make him an Mini-Solitaire!

EDIT 2: Or maybe combat drugs?!

EDIT3: A Rampager prince can get the rage + charge anyone within 8" upgrade, right?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun May 29 2016, 02:54

I mean if the prince is going into the Dark lance squad Why not just get the CW sniper rifle? 120 " ap3 sniper is great company to a squad of DL's. Full disclosure I'm working on a mastercrafted spam list using that approach.

Your edits:

1. Shadowfield at that point I suppose but sounds like hella fun.

2. I keep trying to do the drug game, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Basically my problem is nearly every other first prince gives you a large tangible benefit for the prince, and a lesser benefit for the rest of the army. This one and FNP being the only exceptions where the prince gets a marginal benefit and the rest of the army can pay for that same marginal benefit. Good for an army that can spend the points to spread that benefit to a lot of units I suppose.

3. Yes, but I really want to say ISH. The specific wording for that trait says that any qualifying unit (I, JPI, JB) from the same detachment can take rage and it's side effect, but the Prince automatically gets the side effect anyway. So technically the prince doesn't have rage unless you opt for them to have rage, but always suffers from the must charge clause, so there is no point to not giving them rage.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Jun 08 2016, 23:05

Anyone else noticed that a prince who buys a Cloud Dancer doesn't lose Fleet? (Ordinary cloud dancer do not have fleet).

With Reaver; move 12", reckless 6+d6" (Average 9½), Assault an other unit 8" (not only average on fleet, but also required range to get to assault something "Else") = a charge range of 29½". There's basically no downsides. You pick your fights with ease and you better hope your opponent has scouts or infiltrators for an reckless jump. (They need to be with in 24" of where you deploy your prince, and you have to hope they have a fun target within 17" on your preferred side.)

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Jun 10 2016, 03:11

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
Anyone else noticed that a prince who buys a Cloud Dancer doesn't lose Fleet? (Ordinary cloud dancer do not have fleet).

With Reaver; move 12", reckless 6+d6" (Average 9½), Assault an other unit 8" (not only average on fleet, but also required range to get to assault something "Else") = a charge range of 29½". There's basically no downsides.  You pick your fights with ease and you better hope your opponent has scouts or infiltrators for an reckless jump. (They need to be with in 24" of where you deploy your prince, and you have to hope they have a fun target within 17" on your preferred side.)


You'd still have to have fleet on the entire unit he's in to use it. That's part of the fleet rule.
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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Jun 10 2016, 11:01

I was thinking of having him go solo.


Also; Raider detachment vs CAD.

Which one would you prefer.

The Raiding detachment seems like the correct choice, but I've been thinking.


CAD vs Raiders

Both Give Objective secured.
CAD re-rolls WT, while Raiders give a nice bonus, however, raiders make sub-detachments allies of convenience, which is really nasty when you use lots of scouts and infiltrators. No such limitations in CAD

CAD only requires 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Since we must have a prince, and our troops are good at worst and better than wind riders at best, it's no problem. Raiders require 1 prince and 1 HQ+ 1Troop, making a 2-sub detachment list 3 HQ + 2 Troops. Prince + troops are not a problem, but Void dreamers are 0-1, and barons are quite much of a tax.

Raiders give you a lot more Elites, unfortunately, unless you spam wasps, our elites aren't that good.
Raiders give more Fast, if you take 2 sub-detachments, but then you must have 2 more HQs.
CAD wins on Heavy hands down.

I was trying to do all kinds of Raider lists, but I was never satisfied. Now I tried to make a CAD, and it feels like I can have all that I want in it.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Jun 10 2016, 17:03

If a CAD fits in everything you want, while a raider detachment doesn't, go with the CAD.

Personally, unless you're doing a lot of infiltrating/scouting, I'd probably try to go with the raider detachment more often than not. The special rules are good, and I can fit most of what I want in their setup, in my experience.

The lack of heavy support slots does suck, but many of the heavy supports can get expensive quickly anyhow, so it's not like you're going to mass 9 heavy supports or something. In the end, however, if you have a very particular unit composition you'd like to make, CADs are probably the most flexible.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jun 13 2016, 03:22

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
I was thinking of having him go solo.

He'll probably be shot to pieces if he's on his own, but if there's lots of line-of-sight blocking terrain, yeah it could work. If he's kitted up quite well, I think he'd be pretty scary!

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
Also; Raider detachment vs CAD.

Which one would you prefer.

The real strength of the Raider detachments are the special rules that the CAD lacks completely. Having only allies of convenience doesn't really hinder you; we don't have many IC's or ally-targeting spells in the first place in this codex. The Baron tax doesn't worry me unless I start considering buying lots of detachments. My rule of thumb is usually something like:
1 detachment? - 1 Void Dreamer or Baron, depending on points.
2 detachments? - 1 Void Dreamer and 1 Baron.
3+ detachments? - play less detachments instead, and bring CW/DE allies.

The 30pts tax is cheap if you're actively benefiting from the detachment. For one example, paying 30pts to unlock Tank Hunters on one unit of Balestrikes and 1-3 units of Reavers/Cloud Dancers is totally worth it in my book. Or maybe I want the extra VP option that the Hate Bringers offers. I'd pay 30pts base for that, sure.

Sometimes his unit might coincidentally likes his upgrade options and statline as well. The leadership boost and Scatterfield upgrade he can buy for his unit can be a worthy addition; squad wide 5++, high leadership and negating the "Dancing on the Blade's Edge" special rule, is actually pretty good for a 45pts tax that also happens to give you your detachment bonus.

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 08:19

How many points do you guys typically like to put into your Barons? I'm thinking I'll run two coteries - one for Hornets and the other for Nightwings, and will take two units of Splintercannon bikes to fill the Troops requirements.

Is taking 2x Cloud Dancer Baron + Voidsaber + Shadowfield + Wild Psyker too unreasonable for 105pts each? How would you guys configure them?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 19:11

Void saber feels like a waste of points on a s3 body I'd either grab a venom blade for 10 less if I think that unit will be staying for multiple rounds of combat, or a power lance if it's the killing blow squad. That said my barons are usually about 80-100 occasionally 125 if I'm doing some sort of shenanigans that use a dirt cheap Prince. In a squad of all Felarchs I like to remember the baron isn't a beatstick, they are a shield in the form of a 4+ lookout sir followed by a 2+ invuln. For that reason I almost always go venomblade, or give the baron 2 dissonance pistols instead of 1 and a venomblade like expensive Felarchs.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 19:39

@amorrowlyday wrote:
2 dissonance pistols instead of 1 and a venomblade like expensive Felarchs.

Dissonance pistols represent so much wasted potential for me, since I realised that the way forgeworld worded it, they don't work against vehicles. Mad
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 20:24

Sure, but that's what distort weapons or scourges/ravagers are for, I've decided that this wording is intentional once compared against CE vibro weapons. And it creates a solid niche for the weapon: high toughness w/armour saves including gargantuans.

Wiping a unit of whitescar bikes on overwatch is what did it for me tho.
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 21:37

Ooh, Dissonance pistols do sound fun. I'm liking the idea of a Prescience Baron with two pistols jumping in with 5 Voidstorms with two pistols each - 12 shots, rerolling all non-6's making the pistols on average S8 AP1.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Jul 02 2016, 21:41

TO WOUND. NOT TO PEN. Have fun! Also of note can you reroll successful hits with prescience?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jul 03 2016, 05:01

@MHaruspex wrote:
Ooh, Dissonance pistols do sound fun. I'm liking the idea of a Prescience Baron with two pistols jumping in with 5 Voidstorms with two pistols each - 12 shots, rerolling all non-6's making the pistols on average S8 AP1.

All for the low, low price of 5000 points. Haha.

I don't disagree that the appeal is there. This is an idea I immediately thought of when the book first came out. This was my plan for my corsair army, then I re-read that rule and noticed it said "wound".

Then I compared the cost of the unit with the average number of shots needed to get to that S8 AP1 reliably, and the cost is simply too high for it to not work on vehicles. It doesn't make fiscal sense to not work on vehicles. Hell, even when I thought it DID work on vehicles, it was STILL considered extremely expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jul 03 2016, 16:19

Going to the Wet Coast GT in Vancouver BC Canada with a pure Corsair army.

Will do a quick report of how the tournament went afterwards

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jul 03 2016, 19:47

Yeah, dissonance pistols may have been more just a whim rather than something I'll actually really get into. In terms of Cloud Dancer Barons (I figure I'll run two coteries such that I can play with my Hornets and Nightwings), does a Baron with jetbike + venom blade + shadowfield + ML1 for 95pts sound decent or way overpriced? I figure I'd have one in each coterie escorting a band of 3 splintercannon Cloud Dancers. Prince would be using Reaper of the Outer Dark to grant them Rage, so I could pull shenanigans with shoot whatever + Reckless Abandon away + charge some second unit within 8".

Alternative would just jetbike + shadowfield, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jul 03 2016, 21:54

Personally, if I'm investing in protection for a Baron I prefer shimmershields as it gives the entire unit a 5+ inv and saves some points.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jul 04 2016, 15:18

And if the baton IS the protection I prefer to upgrade the squad to be all characters
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jul 04 2016, 18:34

That's an interesting thought. When you run the all-character squad, do you just go triple-Felarch with venom blades? That comes out to a 40pt model before bike weapons, and with rage will score 5 attacks on the charge - 10/3 hits - 25/9 wounds.

Do you find those 10 attacks on the charge are generally worth the 120+pt cost of the Felarchs?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jul 05 2016, 05:18

135*, and 15 attacks on the charge. (2 base+BoP+Rage [if you take it])x3 Hitting on 3's and rerolling 1's. If that's what you're saying great it didn't come across as it's 15 attacks or 10+ hits, never 10 attacks.

*I give them splinter cannons as well since if I'm going to bother charging something I might as well put 18 shots into it on my way in, and probably 18 more the turn before. I figure giving something blades says in no uncertain terms: I am a lawnmower, I'm here to kill people keep me away from metal boxes.

Generally I don't use the reverse-look-out-sir bike squad in CC anymore tho since I've been playing the warp tunnel Grotesquerie game, and Grotesques are as more effective against most of those targets anyway. Instead, I pare the Baron down to just a shadowfield and give each felarch a master crafted Dark Lance, which makes the above methodology look dirt cheap by comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Sep 21 2016, 10:52

Hi there from a newbie!

I've been trying to put together a pan-Eldar list recently (CWE, DE and Corsairs with some units counts-as Exodites. No Harlies as I just can't fit them in the points level).

I'm just wondering as to the effectiveness of a Traveler of Forgotten Paths Prince with a Baron or two with the Corsair WWP as delivery mechanisms for slow-moving but meaty units like Wraithguard/blades, Taloi and Grotesques.

Basically in my list the Prince starts on the board with a unit of Malevolents and tries to speed up the table and drop a WWP. The Barons either start in a unit of Reavers in reserve (in a Sky Burners Cotorie and an allied Autarch to make sure they come in as soon as possible) or a unit of Ghostwalkers and deep strike/infiltrate/scout somewhere, blast a vehicle off the board with Fusion guns to make their points back and then drop a WWP.

With three portals on the board, all my killy units with short range (Dire Avengers, Wraithguard, Grotesques with attached Succubus, Wraithlord/Talos) jump out on turn 2 (hopefully with Autarch reserves manipulation) and get to work. Meanwhile, any Reavers/Ghostwalkers/Malevolents left leap about being a nuisance while the meat of the army in the enemy's DZ causes havoc.

In my mind, it's a cheaper/slightly riskier/less armoured alternative to sticking the DAs and Wraithguard in Wave Serpents and the Grotesques in a Raider.

Any ideas?

I'd also like to add an ML2 Void Dreamer to the Malevolents so I can use Path Ward to help them get up the board. Plus, as they'll be attached to Malevolents and kept away from the rest of the force if I've read it right I can dismiss some of the Perils results as they'll be Fearless. Problem is is at that point I'm getting very HQ-heavy with an Autarch, a Prince, two Barons, a Void Dreamer, a Succubus and maybe a Farseer...

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Sep 21 2016, 13:47

Hmmm, new idea based on the one above.

Corsairs & CWE Friends (name of army: Webway Ghosts).

Corsairs have a Prince with WWP, 3 barons with WWPs, a Void Dreamer, 1 unit of Malevolents with Melta Bombs, 1 full unit of Reavers with Fusion Guns, 2 min units of Ghostwalkers with 1 Fusion Gun each in a Sky Burners Cotorie.

CWE have an Autarch attached to a unit of Dire Avengers, a full unit of 20 Guardians with Warlock and 2 Scatter Lasers, a unit of Fire Dragons/Warp Spiders and a unit of 3 War Walkers with 2x Scatter Lasers.

The idea would null/minimal deployment. Corsairs would deep strike/infiltrate and throw down Webway Portals all over the board turn 1.

CWE superfriends would jump out of the WWPs, shoot up anything in front of them and then battle-focus back through the WWPs into Ongoing Reserves (Corsairs can do this too if necessary), leaving nothing for the enemy to shoot back at.

Terrible in objectives-based games unless you can table your opponent/murder anything that can fight back, but would certainly be fun Smile

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