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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Thu Dec 17 2015, 22:31

Corsair Wasps can shoot and retreat, BTW. They have Reckless Abandon just like the infantry.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Thu Dec 17 2015, 22:44

@Jimsolo wrote:
Corsair Wasps can shoot and retreat, BTW.  They have Reckless Abandon just like the infantry.

Shocked

Can't believe I didn't notice that. silent

Well, that makes deep-striking them very interesting indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Thu Dec 17 2015, 22:47

I might be able to give the corsairs a try this weekend. If I do I will let you all know.


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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 03:25

While a big to-do has been made of the Collector of Ancient Artifacts (or whatever it's called) being used to take the Mask of Secrets or Armor of Misery, I wonder if some of the other artifacts might be useful, too? Some of them I quite like. The Starmist Raiment seems pretty tight, but I haven't contrasted it with his other options.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 07:30

Well the star mist won't confer to combat because he has no way to run charge.

Crescendo is not a terrible pistol.

Eye of... the laughing god? Could be nice, free AW for everyone.

Actually Cegorach's Rose isn't terrible, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounds most things on 2's RR, and it's ap2. Only 15 points for what is, in most cases going to be an almost guaranteed extra kill. Or at least ap2 wound that ID's anything tough 3.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 12:06

@Jimsolo wrote:
While a big to-do has been made of the Collector of Ancient Artifacts (or whatever it's called) being used to take the Mask of Secrets or Armor of Misery, I wonder if some of the other artifacts might be useful, too?  Some of them I quite like.  The Starmist Raiment seems pretty tight, but I haven't contrasted it with his other options.

Well, I can do a quick rundown of my thoughts on the various items (though this is just first impressions):

Animus Vitae - Obviously worthless in any mono-Corsairs army. The thing is, it's so unreliable that I don't use it even in pure-DE lists, so I really can't see a reason to take it when a chunk of my army won't get the benefit either way.

Archangel of Pain - Way too unreliable and limited in its targets for a one-shot weapon. At the very least, it's the sort of thing you'd really have to build an army around (i.e. Freakshow), and even then you're stymied against Marines, Daemons, nids, IKs etc. I certainly won't be taking it.

Laughing God's Eye/Helm of Spite - These are both expensive and (in my view) not very good. The Helm of Spite is probably better, but doesn't mesh well with the general hit & run strategy of Corsairs. Still, if you're trying for a turn 1 assault, then catapulting a Prince with this into a unit of psykers could be entertaining. Far too expensive and situational for my tastes though.

The Starmist Raiment - If Reckless Abandon was a run move, this item would be amazing. As it is, it seems really expensive and unbelievably situational (especially since, unlike Harlequins, Princes can take Shadowfields).

Armour of Misery/Mask of Secrets - The issue I have with both of these is that Corsairs are lacking in Ld shenanigans. Although, you could try one or the other with a lot of Pinning weapons. The main thing that's offputting for me is that I'd much rather have Mask of Secrets (as it also grants Fearless). But, if I'm using Ld Shenanigans, I'd probably be better off including some harlequins - and hence I'd have no trouble getting the mask anyway. I guess it could be a way of including Armour of Misery without Dark Eldar.

Firesabre/The Storied Sword/Djin Blade - None of these seem like a significant improvement over the Void Sabre.

Shard of Anaris - This one is a bit more interesting. On the surface, the Void Sabre still seems better (-1S but AP3 and for half the cost). However, S6 Rending means the Prince becomes a significant threat to vehicles, and can ID T3 models. Fleshbane and ID in a challenge could als prove useful (especially with Divination and/or the Coterie that lets models reroll 1s to wound if a challenge is in progress). Finally, it provides Fearless - which is definitely worth considering for Corsairs. This one is definitely worth thinking about.

Cegorach's Rose - Slightly cheaper than the Void Sabre, and brings Master Crafter, Shred and a single S6 AP2 attacks that causes ID on 6s to-wound. Not entirely sure what you'd use this against, but it's cheap enough to warrant consideration.

Crescendo/Parasite's Kiss/Kurnous' Bow - With corsairs being pistol-fighters, these could actually work quite well. Not sure if they'd be worth taking Collector of Ancient Treasures for by themselves, but if you're more interested in Master Crafting other weapons and just want the power for that, you might as well take a 5pt pistol. The only sad thing is that you can't take 2 of them - I want a gunslinger with 2 legendary pistols, dammit!

Uldanorethi Long Rifle - Well, most Princes are going to be relentless, so the 'Heavy' aspect doesn't matter. If you want your prince to hang out at the back of the field with some Balestrikes or Cloud Dancers, this will let him still contribute a bit. Even then, it's pretty damn expensive for a mediocre sniper rifle.

The Phoenix Gem - On the one hand, I'd probably prefer this on a non-warlord character, so that I can be a bit more reckless with him if I want to. On the other hand, it could end up saving your warlord (though, for how long is another matter). With Princes having some good melee options, I think it's at least worth considering. But, I'll also admit to being biased on this one, as I have a great fondness for regeneration and resurrection effects. Smile

The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan - For just 15pts, your Prince can cast Prescience (along with Misfortune or Scrier's Gaze, if he rolls either) as a WC1 power. Not only does this make them much easier to cast, but also less risky in terms of rolling Perils. Even better, since the Prince doesn't have Rune Armour, he doesn't suffer the only drawback of this item. This item looks really great on any psyker-Prince.

Any thoughts?


Also, I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it seems odd that this power doesn't let the Prince Master Craft one of his own weapons (even though every other character gets to). Neutral
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 12:35

Reckless Abandon isn't a Run move. Doh.

Seems like you pretty much nailed it.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 16:27

I still really like the mask of secretes and armour of misery. That -2 LD makes a big difference when you get into peoples grills. Not necessarily for things like pinning, but for things like psych shriek, moral checks on multiple enemy units ect. Winning a combat by only 1 puts your opponent at a -3 LD. Which is a big deal.
I have used these items to great effect and have never been disappointed.
I thought they would be interesting to use, but have turned out better than I hoped.

I love taking my WWP archon or succubus with the armour in a unit of fire dragons in a raider. The 6" radius is from the hull of the raider and the dragons kill the vehicles they want to. The rest of my army tries to try and put a few wound on enemy units within 6" of the raider to make them test. It has worked wonders. Especially near the back of my opponents deployment zone where their units run off the board.
I also had a Tau army running for the hills a few weeks ago with the armour and Corpsethief together. It's fun watching 30+ fire warriors run like little bitches!




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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 16:35

@colinsherlow wrote:
I still really like the mask of secretes and armour of misery. That -2 LD makes a big difference when you get into peoples grills.  Not necessarily for things like pinning, but for things like psych shriek, moral checks on multiple enemy units ect. Winning a combat by only 1 puts your opponent at a -3 LD. Which is a big deal.  

Fair enough. Most of the melee units I see are either Marines or Fearless. So, they could have -10 Ld and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

Also, I generally don't want them to run (at least not on the turn I charge), as staying in melee protects me from enemy shooting.

@colinsherlow wrote:

I love taking my WWP archon or succubus with the armour in a unit of fire dragons in a raider.

It might well be a lot better if you take Eldar allies (isn't everything? Wink ), I wouldn't know.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 17:36

Forcing marines off of objectives having them easily run off of the board when in their deployment zone is great. If you play ITC like my group then this is especially good as you stop the marines from scoring maelstrom. And if they are marines I don't care if I am fighting them. They are just there for me to be able to hold on until I kill them in their turn. Also having them off that chance of pushing them off of objectives at the end of the battle can be a big deal. I was sceptical until I gave it a shot for a few games

Try it out for fun a few times.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Fri Dec 18 2015, 18:14

Based on what Shredder has said about his meta before, I think the Freakshow strategies are a rough sell in his group. It's an unusual meta, I think, but one that favors other kinds of lists.

But yeah, Death is Not Enough with the artifacts? Too tasty!
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 03:21

This seems to be emerging as the current dominant Corsair tactica thread. (Any support on changing the title to reflect that?)

What do people think about this? Reaver band with jetpacks and two flamers. Take promethium pipes. Jump out to be close enough to the pipes to use the Torrent rule (and since you're Jet Infantry, the change to Heavy doesn't concern you) and then jump away with your two additional moves to get away from the pipes and/or get into cover. Hell, with the Void Relay Network you could run a pretty solid shooty Corsair list, jumping in between your active VSGs and taking advantage of your pipes to Torrent the ever-loving s--t out of any lesser races that might challenge you.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 03:38

Death is not enough is marvelous. I use it to force units camping the backfield off the map or move those marines 2d6 into the gentle embrace of my death star or solitaire. It's tasty.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 10:04

@Jimsolo wrote:
This seems to be emerging as the current dominant Corsair tactica thread.  (Any support on changing the title to reflect that?)

Title has been changed. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 13:37

What I'm wrestling with is an escort for the Prince. I think Bike, Void Sabre, Shadowfield, maybe Mask of Secrets. The obvious choice is the Seer Council. I've worked out a list with where the points are split even with CWE with a Prince, Autarch, x2 Farseers, 5x Warlocks. This is to me has incredibley nasty potential. However I've worked out another list with a huge unit of Shining Spears+Exarch with Autarch and Farseer both on bikes in support.

Who do you guys intend to stick the Prince with?

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 14:20

@Cavalier wrote:
Who do you guys intend to stick the Prince with?

Well, I don't use Eldar (or Harlequins), so I'm just looking at DE/Corsair options. I mention this because I doubt anything will beat out a Seer Council. Anyway:

- Jet Pack Prince with 5 Malevolents w/ 2 Melta Bombs (Sky Burners Coterie). The unit deep-strikes down within 12" of an enemy, opens up with pistols, then withdraws behind whatever cover is available. After that, it can either try for an assault in my next turn, or else continue jumping around with pistols.

- Jetbike Prince with 5 Malevolents w/ 2 Melta Bombs (not Sky Burners). Similar to the above, but have to start on the board, in exchange for a more durable Prince.

In both cases, Prince will have either Divination (for buffs) or Telekinesis (for extra shooting and Reckless Abandon Shenanigans).

- Jetbike Prince with 3-5 Cloud Dancers w/ Splinter or Shuriken Cannons and Felarch. This is if I want a Jetbike unit without going outside of Corsairs. Honestly though, I suspect melee will be more of a backup - as their ranged weapons are just so much better. I could not take ranged weapons, but (at the very least) it seems idiotic to pass up 5pt Splinter Cannons on relentless models with JSU.

In this case, the Prince will have Divination.

Also, any of the above may be accompanied by an appropriate Baron.

- Jetbike prince with 6 Reaver Jetbikes with Champion, 2x Cluster Caltrops and 2x Heat Lance or Blaster. Similar to the above, but with more of a focus on melee. On the charge, they have 2d6 S6 rending HoW hits and 4 S4 rending HoW hits, followed by 5 S5 AP3 Rending attacks from the Prince. They also have Hit & Run, and the Reavers have Skilled Rider.

- Jetbike Prince with Beast Pack. Almost certainly not as good as the above, but I mention it on the off chance I want to try it for fluff reasons or whatever. Especially since, unlike Autarchs, Princes keep fleet when on Jetbikes.


The main issue I have is that Jetbike really feels like the way to go... but I hate Jetbike HQs. I don't know what it is, but I just can't stand the sight of my HQ riding a bike. pale
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 15:51

I am having a hard time deciding on exactly what I want to do with the prince.
I like the seer council idea, but I don't like spending too many points on a single unit. Just my opinion.

I actually like shining spears and think they are actually a good counter assault unit. Outflank is also kind of awesome. Their lance can also pop rear/side armour pretty well. A medium unit of these fellas make for a good body guard.

I am for sure putting the prince on a bike and gearing him for combat. Giving him a psycher level is appealing and I will try it out for sure. Just a little worried about having my warlord as a psycher as the corsair perils chart isn't very forgiving. But if you are reserved with your power use it could be well worth it in a pinch.

Shredders Reaver jetbike build also looks pretty sweet.


For me I will probably just put him with corsair bikes and use him as a small clean up crew or for assaulting weaker non combat dedicated units.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 15:57

@colinsherlow wrote:

I like the seer council idea, but I don't like spending too many points on a single unit. Just my opinion.

I'm the same.

I'm especailly wary of doing this with my Warlord's escort - he'll already have a bead on his head, and I'd rather not make him even more of a priority target. Razz

@colinsherlow wrote:

I am for sure putting the prince on a bike and gearing him for combat. Giving him a psycher level is appealing and I will try it out for sure. Just a little worried about having my warlord as a psycher as the corsair perils chart isn't very forgiving. But if you are reserved with your power use it could be well worth it in a pinch.

I'm worried about that, too. Kinda torn between using very few dice (no/minimal risk, but good chance the power won't even go off), or using more dice and risking Perils. WC2 spells are a particular concern.

@colinsherlow wrote:

For me I will probably just put him with corsair bikes and use him as a small clean up crew or for assaulting weaker non combat dedicated units.

If you wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear what build you use with that squad. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 16:43

I tend to run 2-4 min bikes units and 1 often has no upgrades for a cheap throw away unit for maelstrom point or to stay low on the target priority list.

Other bikes are usually scatter or occasionally shuriken cannon. I just run the characters wherever I feel they are the most safe and/or useful at that time.

As for a prince psycher. He will probably just be there to create warpcharge for the other psychers. And I will prob just use a power for him when it is only really needed.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 18:08

I think he'd make a banging babysitter for some grotesques. A Seer council would be my second pick.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 18:11

Maybe I'm too competitive but I love my seer council. Then again I cast Eldritch storm as an apocalyptic blast the other day and I think I'm addicted now lol.

Plus I can use some of my 10 incubi I love so much as dark eldar psyker hunters (which is what I think of my seer council as).

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 18:13

@The Red King wrote:
Plus I can use some of my 10 incubi I love so much as dark eldar psyker hunters (which is what I think of my seer council as).

Surely they'd just end up committing seppuku? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 18:16

Well my Kabal lives away from commoragh in one of its slaved pocket realms that's mostly just lava. So people don't visit often and the Archon got tired of his psychic enemies and brought a fly swatter in the shape of a sledgehammer lol. No kill like overkill.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 19:42

One thing that's a little annoying is that several Corsair vehicles have 2 weapons, but are only allowed to swap out 1 of them. e.g. unlike Eldar War Walkers, Wasps can only exchange one of their two Shuriken Cannons for a Scatter Laser or other weapon. Same goes for Hornets. I haven't looked at the others yet, but there are probably further examples.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sat Dec 19 2015, 19:51

You can swap both on the hornets. Not sure about the walkers

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