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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jan 03 2016, 14:15

@Jimsolo wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@The Red King wrote:

However I also ran what I thought would be far too costly a unit;  seer council with Corsair Prince, Archon, and void dreamer. This was a 2000 point game. I really built that unit around ld shenanigans and my opponent was fielding literally nothing but tanks so I knew it would be rough. However they were stars. Having 3 shadow fields with a fortune Re roll meant I never really dreaded failing the save.  They ate 6+ tanks worth of fire for 3+ turns and only the Prince ever lost his 2++ (so I just rotated him to the back of the unit and kept going).

Even with their LD abilities useless they made their points back running through 5+ tanks through sheer weight of Armour Bane attacks from the seers and rending on the corsairs.

Were they on foot the whole game, or did they start in a transport?

I assumed on bikes, when I first read it.

But neither the Archon nor the Void Dreamer can take bikes.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jan 03 2016, 14:21

Ah. Then I'm on drugs.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Sun Jan 03 2016, 18:51

Sorry my active hours don't seem to match yalls.

They were on foot yes. Though 3 rolls on Aethermancy netted me warp blink which allowed for quite a bit of mobility.

As for the psychics. I tended to be cautious and use less dice. This stopped my Prince from casting Prescience but never stopped me from using warp blink (wc1) and the divination level on the Prince is more icing than cake.

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 12:19

Yeah I'm all about the Void Dreamer. Warp Tunnel, Warp Blink, Webway Breach, Webway Maze are fantastic powers. I'm dying for the chance to throw my opponents deathstar into ongoing reserves on a turn 5 finish. Also being able to move your opponents models back 2d6 inches isn't bad either.

Warp Tunnel is probably the one I'm most interested in especially with a nasty assault unit. Teleporting your Corpsethief, Avatar, Wraithknight, Wraithblades or even Banshees across the board and then assaulting is gonna be such a nasty maneuver.

All in all I love the abilities to go onto Ongoing Reserve for friend and foe. Especially with some busted up vehicle or unit on it last Hullpoint or Wound, chucking that unit into ongoing reserves to avoid First Blood, or Assassination in a maelstrom game is really clutch. I think a lot of those powers are going to require in game testing to see how useful they are but I'm definitely intrigued.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 12:26

@Cavalier wrote:
YWarp Tunnel is probably the one I'm most interested in especially with a nasty assault unit. Teleporting your Corpsethief, Avatar, Wraithknight, Wraithblades or even Banshees across the board and then assaulting is gonna be such a nasty maneuver.

Bear in mind that that power can only target Corsair units or the Void Dreamer's unit.

So, you cant teleport any non-Corsair unit that the Void Dreamer isn't attached to.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 12:43

Doesn't it have a high WC cost, too?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 13:02

@Shredder- Good catch my man, you are right I missed that. Too bad about that one cause it'd really help out the ol'Avatar

@Jimsolo- Its only WC2 which isn't bad in my book.

Still pumped about the other powers and Warp Tunnel would be good for getting malevolents and voidstorm directly into combat perhaps on T1 or T2

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 13:02

@Jimsolo wrote:
Doesn't it have a high WC cost, too?

WC2. So not too bad, but still a bit dicey given the Corsair Perils table.

The one I really wouldn't want to cast is Webway Maze (WC3). Just seems too risky to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 18:25

@The Shredder wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Doesn't it have a high WC cost, too?

WC2. So not too bad, but still a bit dicey given the Corsair Perils table.

The one I really wouldn't want to cast is Webway Maze (WC3). Just seems too risky to me.

That's, I think, my issue. The Perils table is too brutal for me to be comfortable messing with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:00

@The Shredder wrote:

The one I really wouldn't want to cast is Webway Maze (WC3). Just seems too risky to me.

High risk, high reward. I was reading a thread elsewhere (BOLS maybe?) where someone was bragging about putting a 70+ model green tide back in to reserve.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:16

@stilgar27 wrote:
High risk, high reward.  I was reading a thread elsewhere (BOLS maybe?) where someone was bragging about putting a 70+ model green tide back in to reserve.  

Possibly it depends on whether you have any other (less risky) ways of dealing with that unit.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:31

So at my earliest convenience, which may unfortunately be about 2 weeks, I'll try that death star again but instead of seer council I'll try 5 wraith blades. Major toughness 6 should go a long way to keeping those shadow fields up, while the blades provide much more threat in CC. At the loss of 5 warp charges and 2 powers because I jiggled the list to still bring the farseers for fortune and psychic shriek.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:32

I'd be more interested in dropping the Archon and Void Dreamer (or putting the latter elsewhere), and running the Prince and Seer Council on bikes.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:48

Bikes don't do it for me. I find them too mobile and sturdy and I just don't like the look. Besides there is something mentally devastating when you inform your opponent that, and I quote? "Actually the front 3 people have a 2++ rerollable..." should've seen his face.

And even on bikes the Void Dreamer in the unit is more mobile (for combat). 6 inch plus 2d6 with blink is a 13 inch move and can still charge. Warp tunnel makes them more mobile even when you factor in turbo boosting and they can still shoot/assault/psychic shriek whatever you want with a delicious -4ld bubble. Also no scatter deepstrike makes even fusion pistols look decent.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 19:56

@The Red King wrote:
Bikes don't do it for me.  I find them too mobile and sturdy

Neutral

@The Red King wrote:
I just don't like the look.

Fair enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Mon Jan 04 2016, 20:04

Eldar jet bikes peev me. 3+ armor, jink, and a 48" move. On a obsec troop choice. They are ridiculously unbalanced and I avoid them for fear of dependence.

That aside. From a purely competitive standpoint they are amazing and can easily get a 2+ rr cover save on the whole unit. At the cost of not being able to shoot any blasts (ie the amazing eldritch storm) or reliably hit with my personal favorite psychic shriek.

So easily one of the most durable units you can run, but with no obsec to capture with, jinking making your shooting negligible and gimping your psychic powers while not being super impressive in CC and lacking hit and run (just add baharroth I suppose) makes their durability less of an auto include to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 14:09

Any thoughts on Vyper Jetbikes or Wasp walkers?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 17:39

I've never used them or their craftworld variant. The walkers seem better to me on the grounds they come stock with their kinetic shroud. So if I were going to use them. It would be deep striking in a sky burner coterie for that lovely 4++ rr.

However do to the fact reckless abandon is not a run move and they don't have battle focus. You do have to sacrifice shooting to get that good a save on any other turn. So I'd call them a good alpha striker.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 18:21

No experience with wasps yet.  Hope to convert some in the future.

I do have 6 vypers laying around, but I still can't find a good use/load out for them.  Compared to other choices, like cloud dancers and hornets - there appear to really only be two options: Lances and Missile Launchers.

Getting a 2hp, fast platform for a lance on the table for 45 points isn't bad, there are other options (like 5 point cheaper cloud dancer equivalents).  Each has it's pros and cons, but I could definitely see myself fielding vypers with lances.

The best use of these guys though is probably the missile launchers.  As far as I can tell only wasps and vypers get to fire all 3 missile types from their launchers.  So basically cheap, long-ranged, versatility.

I don't really think the front arch weapons are worth it.  The splinter cannon you could argue is worth 10 points over the lasblasters, but the shuriken cannon cost puts this thing up in to the range of hornets and wasps - Both of which come with twin shuriken cannons and better rules.

It might be better to sink those points into vehicle upgrades instead.  I'd be really interested in trying to exploit tank shock rules with a unit of 6 cheap, chain snare carrying vypers.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 22:53

@stilgar27 wrote:
No experience with wasps yet.  Hope to convert some in the future.

Fair enough. Any thoughts on their weapons? Dark Lances? Scatter Lasers?

@stilgar27 wrote:

I do have 6 vypers laying around, but I still can't find a good use/load out for them.  Compared to other choices, like cloud dancers and hornets - there appear to really only be two options: Lances and Missile Launchers.

Getting a 2hp, fast platform for a lance on the table for 45 points isn't bad, there are other options (like 5 point cheaper cloud dancer equivalents).  Each has it's pros and cons, but I could definitely see myself fielding vypers with lances.

The best use of these guys though is probably the missile launchers.  As far as I can tell only wasps and vypers get to fire all 3 missile types from their launchers.  So basically cheap, long-ranged, versatility.

My issue is that 55pts for a single missile shot really doesn't seem cheap. Especially since missiles aren't very good.

@stilgar27 wrote:

I don't really think the front arch weapons are worth it.  The splinter cannon you could argue is worth 10 points over the lasblasters, but the shuriken cannon cost puts this thing up in to the range of hornets and wasps - Both of which come with twin shuriken cannons and better rules.

Well, Vypers can at least move 12" and still shoot normally (unlike the Wasps). Though, I agree that Wasps are probably better. Being able to take 2 Scatter Lasers and coming with a Kinetic Field is almost certainly better.

The issue I have is that Vypers don't seem worth it for just a single gun. But, as you say, taking 2 makes them too expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 23:08

@The Shredder wrote:

The issue I have is that Vypers don't seem worth it for just a single gun. But, as you say, taking 2 makes them too expensive.

and that's pretty much where I am. I have a unit of 3 hornets, and about 20 bikes though so they are pretty redundant for me. I used to use them to proxy in venoms and I may just do so again.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Tue Jan 05 2016, 23:17

@stilgar27 wrote:
and that's pretty much where I am.  I have a unit of 3 hornets, and about 20 bikes though so they are pretty redundant for me.  I used to use them to proxy in venoms and I may just do so again.

I think my problem might be that I don't have enough bikes (9 currently).

They just seem so much more efficient than Vypers and Wasps (on top of being more mobile).
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Jan 06 2016, 14:55

Grotesquerie + Shimmershield, Anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Jan 06 2016, 14:59

@MarcoAvrelis wrote:
Grotesquerie + Shimmershield, Anyone?

Void Dreamer might be a good candidate for that. In addition to providing Shimmershield, he can also use his powers to jump the Grotesques into combat, extend charge distances etc.

Could use a Prince instead, but since he has to be your warlord I'd a 4+ save on him at the bare minimum (probably a Shadowfield if he isn't on a Jetbike).


In other news, just came across this:

Quote :
Interesting post popped up on Reddit, does Reckless Abandon activate on overwatch?

"A unit which includes only models with this special rule that fires at an enemy unit within 12" of itself may make an immediate move of 6" after all effects of the shooting attack have been resolved. If the unit has the type Jet Pack Infantry or Eldar Jetbike, this move is increased to 6+D6". This move cannot place the unit into close combat, within 1" of any enemy unit or be used to move them closer to any unit targeted by their shooting attack."

Though maybe unintentional, it can be read that way.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Corsair Tactics   Wed Jan 06 2016, 17:22

I'd say absolutely.
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