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CptMetal
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PostSubject: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 18:53

Easy question: what would you put into the two wrack units of a scalpel squadron?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 19:20

@CptMetal wrote:
Easy question: what would you put into the two wrack units of a scalpel squadron?

Blind faith. Laughing


More seriously, probably just an Ossefactor each.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 19:27

Depends. If I do think I actually CAN get FB with them -> Ossefactors. If I just need them to null-deploy -> nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 19:34

I want them to null deploy and first blood.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 19:50

It does not matter if you WANT them to first blood. Most of the time they wont get it. The Venoms will do around 2,66 unsaved wounds against MEQ and the Ossefactor 1,11.
So on average you wont even kill a squad of 5 marines in the open.

An army that contains 3 man squads of bikers (White Scars, Eldar,..), small multiwound units with bad saves (Chaos Spawn) or minimum sized GEQ are armies that tend to give them first blood so you can try to maximise on your chances.
Everything else is likely to fail.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 20:12

@The Shredder wrote:
@CptMetal wrote:
Easy question: what would you put into the two wrack units of a scalpel squadron?

Blind faith. Laughing



lol!


I would agree. The unit isn;t amazing aside from turn one deployment. If you want SOME kind of usefulness a Liquifier or Ossefactor might be useful, but one weapon is not usefukl enough.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Fri Dec 04 2015, 20:16

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Depends. If I do think I actually CAN get FB with them -> Ossefactors. If I just need them to null-deploy -> nothing.

I'd want ossefactors because they're the only useful weapon Wracks can bring. And, if I'm already spending 260pts to null deploy, I might as well make it 290 and bring some decent weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 11 2016, 19:11

I know this is a resurrection, but it literally says in the description of the Scalpel Squadron that they are there to die basically.

"These forces cut across the battlfield at unseemly speed, debarking from their skimmers to slice into gun crews and weapons teams. Though they are usually killed by the resultant counter-attack..."

Null Deploy, try for FB and those extra VP. Maybe they'll live to the next turn, prolly not.
Or, Just let them distract while your grots, taloi and cronos make it up the board and into range.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Thu Jan 14 2016, 20:47

@Wulfvin wrote:
I know this is a resurrection, but it literally says in the description of the Scalpel Squadron that they are there to die basically.

This sounds suspiciously like our entire codex.

@Wulfvin wrote:
"These forces cut across the battlfield at unseemly speed, debarking from their skimmers to slice into gun crews and weapons teams. Though they are usually killed by the resultant counter-attack..."

Null Deploy, try for FB and those extra VP. Maybe they'll live to the next turn, prolly not.
Or, Just let them distract while your grots, taloi and cronos make it up the board and into range.

They're super squishy when they're alone versus an entire army, and they won't have their turn two fearless SR. Things that can kill them won't be able to kill our other stuff anyway, due to strength and range of the enemies basic guns. But they can and will kill the venom and its 5 occupants, which in turn give the enemy first blood instead of acquiring it themselves.

I forget if they have precision shots? If they did, maybe that AP2 would actually serve a potential purpose. Arguably still not enough to justify their points.

If you want to take them, use null deployment, DS them both on one flank, or deep in your own half, and then flat out for cover. When the rest of the army turns up on turn 2, they can start to (try) contribute to the game plan.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Sun Jan 17 2016, 10:15

@hydranixx wrote:
I forget if they have precision shots? If they did, maybe that AP2 would actually serve a potential purpose. Arguably still not enough to justify their points.

No, they don't. That's the Scarlet Epicureans.

One thing I noticed about Scalpel Squadrons is that it's usually not the Wracks scoring First Blood, but their Venoms.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 00:16

@Rokuro wrote:
@hydranixx wrote:
I forget if they have precision shots? If they did, maybe that AP2 would actually serve a potential purpose. Arguably still not enough to justify their points.

No, they don't. That's the Scarlet Epicureans.

One thing I noticed about Scalpel Squadrons is that it's usually not the Wracks scoring First Blood, but their Venoms.

Ah, well that kills their ability to actually snipe special weapons (you know, that thing that the detachment fluff literally details) :

"These forces cut across the battlefield at unseemly speed, debarking from their skimmers to slice into gun crews and weapons teams"

The detachment bonus d3 points still applies to their Venom's kills though right? Perhaps between these and the wracks, they could actually bully a single 5 man unit to death.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 00:49

@hydranixx wrote:
The detachment bonus d3 points still applies to their Venom's kills though right? Perhaps between these and the wracks, they could actually bully a single 5 man unit to death.

The codex says: "If a unit from this Formation completes the First Blood Secondary Objective". That includes the Venoms.

Up to 24 Poison shots, followed by at least 20 Poison attacks, have good chances of wiping out a 10-man GEQ or a 5-man MEQ squad. You could give one a Liquifier Gun and/or buy an Aconthyst with one in an attempt to make them into horde killers, but I don't think that's going to be a reliable strategy. Better stick with the Ossefactor and use their combined firepower to assassinate artillery units, monstrous creatures or lone characters.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 05:12

24 poison shots has a 12.0% chance of wiping a 5 man MEQ squad, or a 25.4% chance of wiping a 10 wound GEQ squad (in the open).

If you can somehow get the Wracks into combat for the extra poison attacks before the enemy destroys one of your units, then that probably tilts the calculus in your favour.

In an eternal war mission where VPs are hard to come by it might be worth trying the 12-25% chance at extra First Blood VPs regardless... the potential reward might be worth gambling on the low odds of success.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 06:01

I wouldn't consider that I'm able to attack with the Infantry inside. Not before the Venom for enemy's first blood got destroyed.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 09:48

Just take in multiplies, et voilà.

2 Venoms cannot do first Blood and are easy to destroy (risky null deploy).
4-6 Venoms otherwise...


Why don't write a list with 2×/3x Scalpel Squadrons? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 10:44

Interesting, but could get expensive. Think about how you'd feel when you finally manage first blood and roll a 1 for the victory points.
-.-'

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 10:52

First Blood is a bonus. The real strength is in the ability to null deploy.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 12:07

@Cerve wrote:
Just take in multiplies, et voilà.

2 Venoms cannot do first Blood and are easy to destroy (risky null deploy).
4-6 Venoms otherwise...


Why don't write a list with 2×/3x Scalpel Squadrons? Smile

Because that entails writing a list with 4-6 Wrack squads. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 14:21

@The Shredder wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Just take in multiplies, et voilà.

2 Venoms cannot do first Blood and are easy to destroy (risky null deploy).
4-6 Venoms otherwise...


Why don't write a list with 2×/3x Scalpel Squadrons? Smile

Because that entails writing a list with 4-6 Wrack squads. Rolling Eyes

ye know, but that's fine Smile

Never play it, but even 4-6 Ossofast can be a treat for first blood. Maybe in a Coven list, or something
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 14:35

[quote="Cerve"]
@The Shredder wrote:

ye know, but that's fine Smile

Never play it, but even 4-6 Ossofast can be a treat for first blood. Maybe in a Coven list, or something

For me, it's just too many points spend on 1 gimmick.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 14:44

@The Shredder wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:

ye know, but that's fine Smile

Never play it, but even 4-6 Ossofast can be a treat for first blood. Maybe in a Coven list, or something

For me, it's just too many points spend on 1 gimmick.


But u don't play it for that gimmick. They are 6 common Venoms. With 30 Wracks.

Don't care about first blood rule, is a nice solid classic DE list. Who don't feel first turn fire (Deep Strike)
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 14:50

@Cerve wrote:

But u don't play it for that gimmick. They are 6 common Venoms. With 30 Wracks.

Yes, 30 Wracks that I don't sodding well want.

@Cerve wrote:

Don't care about first blood rule, is a nice solid classic DE list.

How is it a solid list? You've got 12 units whose combined anti-vehicle ability amounts to bugger all. Neutral

Most 'solid lists' comprise units that can't be outwitted by a rhino. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 15:09

It's 105 points for the smallest unit size and 150 if you buy everything on top.
So 210 points for the scalpel minimum. That's not too much.

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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 15:17

@CptMetal wrote:
It's 105 points for the smallest unit size and 150 if you buy everything on top.
So 210 points for the scalpel minimum. That's not too much.

Well, more like 230 minimum - since you're very unlikely to not buy the extra Splinter Cannons on the Venoms. If you take the Ossefactors, that brings it to 260.

It's not too bad if you're going for null-deployment, but still I think it gets a lot worse when you start taking multiples of them.
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PostSubject: Re: scalpel load    Mon Jan 18 2016, 17:09

Ah. My bad. I forgot the Splinter Cannon.

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