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 Kauyon style book for DE

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daveyo
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PostSubject: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 14 2015, 18:05

Wishlisting again. What do you think GW would do if we (as a community) wrote a campaign book along the style of the Kauyon book featuring new stories, characters and of course rules. To ensure it meets the GW Agenda of pushing models we could feature popular protagonists such as a marine chapter, militarum forces and a story of betrayal and war with Dark Eldar perhaps taking advantage of a Chaos incursion OR a Tyranid fleet arriving in system from a hulk. OR Black Templars crusading into the Ghoul Stars with guard allies against a Tomb World...and being raided by DE

The goal being to pitch it to GW for their endorsement, editing and publishing.

Waste of time?
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 14 2015, 19:13

Frankly, yes.
Games Workshop head office (not local stores or custoemr service) don't like communicating with their core demographic. They prefer to pretend we don't exist.
Granted they've been licencing a lot lately, mostly for awful video games, but within their core games they do not like people taking on their IP and doing interesting things with it. Maybe I've become overly cynical on this, and I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but I'm doubtful.


BUT, that being said, its still an excellent idea and worth persuing as a community project.

If I might, I would humbly suggest an obvious choice - Dark Eldar vs the Salamanders. Make the core story about the Salamander incursion into Commoragh. Sallies are due a decent stab of their own, and some nice little formations for them would go great alongside some serious Dar Eldar stuff.
It would also be a decent opportunity to bring in Castigators and Vect - who so far in fluff have only put in an appearance or acted within the city itself. Having the campaign set within the city is an ideal chance for that.
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daveyo
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 14 2015, 20:29

Great idea. Chapter 1 is of course a prelude mission with Vect drawing the salamanders to Commoragh...with a huge countdown to disaster. Flash forward to current times and vulkans search for the relics...lying in the wreckage of the cruiser in the Web way!
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 14 2015, 22:09

Based on the previous Codex, a general timeline could be:

Vect's brutal campaign against Imperial worlds and shipping in the Desaderian Gulf.
> Desadarian Campaign? Might make sense, and you can start off with some Dark Eldar AND maybe a Guard defensive Formation or two.

One strike cruiser was in range to investigate, a Salamanders ship called the Forgehammer commanded by Captain Phoecus, searching for relics of their Primarch.
> So there you a Salamanders character, and the potential for some special Salamanders wargear, on top of the obvious chance for some Formations or a Detachment.

The ship is crippled and dragged into the Webway by Vect's forces. There is was stolen by Archon Xelain, who reckoned without the forces of Marines inside, and all out war erupted in Commoragh (leading to the rise of Vect).
> This I would call Act 2 of the campaign. The desperate struggle of Phoecus to keep his men alive in Commoragh.

Based on the narrative, this is when thw webway opened (somehow) and twelve dozen Salamander vessels led by the Vulkan's Wrath descended into the city and helped the Forgehammer escape.
> And there's a third and final Act.
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 14 2015, 23:03

@Squidmaster wrote:
Games Workshop head office (not local stores or custoemr service) don't like communicating with their core demographic. They prefer to pretend we don't exist. [...] Maybe I've become overly  cynical on this, and I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but I'm doubtful.
The new CEO seems to be trying to rectify this attitude. First, they publicly asked for feedback on their Age of Sigmar app (seriously, how completely out of character is that for the GW we know?), and now they've announced the launch of the Specialist Product Design Studio for the development and support of new games and cult classics like Necromunda and Battlefleet Gothic. That's not to say they'll take on such an idea as this, but it's more likely now than the past several years.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sun Nov 15 2015, 02:20

Cool idea, bridging the gap between M34 and M41...

Another campaign could be the portal (Iron Thorn? Can't remember) into Commorragh that's locked to keep daemons out. That could involve Vect vs Malys intrigue, Daemons, Harlequins, and a Legion of Chaos Marines to keep the power armour quotient up. Thousand Sons and Word Bearers would both be a good fit.
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sun Nov 15 2015, 19:45

Specialist games studio is Forge World, not GW.

Because I love narrative campaigns, I think this is worth doing for the sake of doing it. To my mind, this is the best way to play the game. (Other people's preferred ways of playing are totally valid, this is just me.)

I think it's unlikely verging on the impossible that GW would endorse/edit/publish a fan-made campaign.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sun Nov 15 2015, 22:44

I agree, on both the fact GW won't listen to us (unless everybody stops buying their stuff, but we all know that's not gonna happen) and the fact its a great idea.

I've never played a narrative campaign but having watched a few they look much more fun.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Mon Nov 16 2015, 06:57

@Creeping Darkness wrote:
Cool idea, bridging the gap between M34 and M41...

Another campaign could be the portal (Iron Thorn? Can't remember) into Commorragh that's locked to keep daemons out. That could involve Vect vs Malys intrigue, Daemons, Harlequins, and a Legion of Chaos Marines to keep the power armour quotient up. Thousand Sons and Word Bearers would both be a good fit.

Khaine's Gate. Even the name would be perfect for a campaign book. Smile

I could see GW releasing this, along with a new Vect and (possibly army-box-exclusive) Malys model - but not before a new core codex for Dark Eldar. The current codex just isn't popular enough.

It would also seem like a good idea to me if Cabals, Wych Cults and Haemonculus Covens all got their own codices, even if that means waiting longer for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Mon Nov 16 2015, 11:24

I'm a total fluff bunny. Seriously, it matters a lot, so this would be great. I remember way back in the mists of time when GW let customer battles dictate fluff direction (super-massive tournament I think, Maccrage perhaps? it was the late 80's or 90 I think)

Anyway... Khaine's Gate is a great name, but I also love the idea of the Sally's vs Black Heart

Edited to add: just seen on BoLS that the Tyrannids are getting a new codex, but it couldbe Tau style so tweaks, units and formations rather than rewrite. Maybe this is the route GW are taking to update to 7th across the board?

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Mon Nov 16 2015, 14:31

@Calyptra wrote:
Specialist games studio is Forge World, not GW.
The Specialist Product Design Studio is a division of Games Workshop that will include Forge World. Prior to this, Forge World was a division of Games Workshop anyway.

The point is: the new CEO seems to be more in touch with what the customers want than the previous one.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Mon Nov 16 2015, 14:35

Other than Khainse Gate and the Salamanders incursion, does our fluff have any other significant battles or campaigns that would suit? I think in the fluff Dark Eldar did have a good presence in the recent Tau campaign (was that the one Rakarth got into?) which was left out of the new book.
Have we got anything else?
The only other thing I can think of is the supporting role during the Tyranid/Iyanden thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Mon Nov 16 2015, 14:47

[quote="Erebus"]
@Calyptra wrote:
The point is: the new CEO seems to be more in touch with what the customers want than the previous one.

I suspect it's more a case of realising their sales of existing ranges are still falling and they need to find 'new' stuff to sell.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Tue Nov 17 2015, 05:49

It makes it easier to keep the armies updated if they are doing it via dataslates in a campaign book too. I would be very interested in one. I think that has been the hope of all DE players since our codex dropped.

@Squidmaster wrote:
Other than Khainse Gate and the Salamanders incursion, does our fluff have any other significant battles or campaigns that would suit? I think in the fluff Dark Eldar did have a good presence in the recent Tau campaign (was that the one Rakarth got into?) which was left out of the new book.
Have we got anything else?
The only other thing I can think of is the supporting role during the Tyranid/Iyanden thing.

There's several instances of them popping into an already wartorn area to take advantage of the discord and take slaves and artifacts. Potentially, they could show up during any ongoing conflict to do so again. Vect, Malys, Rakarth all have agendas they could pursue and if GW wanted to write in another lesser Archon or DE character they easily could.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Tue Nov 17 2015, 11:18

True, but I guess what we want in this instance is a campaign narrative where Dark Eldar are front and centre.

Didn't the old third edition Codex have reference to an attack on Istvaan or something? (non-Heresy related)
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Tue Nov 17 2015, 17:38

Hm. There's a couple references to a Delta 9 Massacre. It mentions Obsidian Station and Erinyes Station, no idea if they're related. The Jericho system (Jericho III), Vistro, Stratix Forge World, Banelund, and Jurn. The story at the end (about Devilnacht) says Thangod Colony, Beta-Coplin XXI. That's it, unless I'm missing something.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 00:44

Hi.  Assuming the RIse of Vect story (DE vs. Salamanders) I have started the Salamanders detachment and formations AND of course the new DE Decurion style.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_nt0hlhzV2lVUZSLVRKOHdlSkk

Thoughts all
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 10:15

I think you probably don't need a Decurion style list for the Salamanders as they still have the full Space Marine book to work with. Probably better if we keep to Formations.

I quite like the Fireborn Killteams. Deadly in the right hands, though maybe a tad overboard on all the free Flamers? Maybe?
Phiecus is nice. He seems quite well balanced too, as just ba slightly upgraded Captain, but not gone too far.

Kabalite Raiding Part, you may hit a balance issue with 150pts of free stuff. Thats at least two free Raiders or Venoms fully kitted out with fun wargear! Maybe make it that all the transport vehicles can take weapon upgrades for free?

Legends of the Arena, I think it would be a good start to simply redo Wyches. Give them a new dataslate to supercede the old. Lightning Assault would be an excellent rule for Wyches as standard, as is Vile Murderers. An important note for the Formation would be the option to swap out the SUccubus with Lilith Hesperax.

Host of Shadows, very nice. Have I seem that on The Dark City before?

Now I know I've seen the Scions of Ahrha before, and I love it.


Its a decent start. It needs some tweaks, and importantly some new unit Data-sheets as well as Formations.
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 10:18

Thanks squid.  When thinking about Salamanders I must confess a desire to suddenly change armies!! The style of the updates I wrote directly matches the Scars/Raven from Kauyon...I used those as inspiration. Quite tough as the Detachments are Chapter specific, but the formations are written to be usable by any marine force.

The DE stuff I suggest allows the Core codex to stay unchanged (Except the Covens supplement which needs re-doing I think...which I have effectively done) whilst fixing our issues and making us more competitive without the need for new dataslates.

Here's hoping that GW somehow stumble onto our musings Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 13:20

Why do the coven need an update? I like that book! There are some awesome formations in it...

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 13:28

Some of the formations are good...but as a whole army it doesn't work as well as it could. And I want all the formations to be good and playable. The changes I suggest are not huge, but they add more flavour, more Haemonculi, and more flexibility. e.g. Corpsethief as individual units, more customisable loadout for Artisan, Playable Epicureans, Desirable Covenite Coterie.

Built into a Decurion style detachment as I suggest in the doc. will allow the covens to deploy with the benefits of a RSR whilst being their horrible nastiness!

I like the idea of a Detachemnt of Formations of Formations Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 13:34

Yeah don't see any problems with the coven codex, its really good. Maybe the addition of a decent melee AT weapon for grotesques, but that would remove their one weakness. Haemonculus are  bit lack luster, other then that the Coven suplliment rocks.

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 14:18

Covens book is okay, although like most DE products there is still plenty of room for improvement. Compare the Covenite Coterie to the Necron Decurion, Eldar Warhost, SM Gladius etc and...well, there's no comparison!

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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Wed Nov 18 2015, 14:20

In my humble opinion, the changes I have put forward go some way to levelling the playing field.

Still nothing to counter the 10 billion ignores cover Tau nonesense, but hey ho
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PostSubject: Re: Kauyon style book for DE   Sat Nov 21 2015, 12:02

@CptMetal wrote:
Why do the coven need an update? I like that book! There are some awesome formations in it...

A new Coven codex would be due if the next Dark Eldar codex includes something that impacts Coven units, like changing Wracks from elite to troops, or adding a gargantuan Pain Engine. Or, as I expect GW to do after what they did with the AdMech, if Coven units won't even be featured in the same codex as Kabal and Wych Cult units anymore.
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