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Painjunky
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PostSubject: First thoughts on new tau?   Tue Oct 27 2015, 10:32

A lot of news dropping on new tau atm.

They get lots of new special rules (from formations mostly) that buff their already formidable firepower.

That new 2+ cover save all the time ghostkeel MC might see some table time.

Has anything you've seen thus far really worried you or made you re-evaluate how you play them?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Tue Oct 27 2015, 10:34

A lot of the new formation buffs have me worried but the Tau already pretty much delete any DE unit they target anyway so it's not that much of a change!

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Tue Oct 27 2015, 10:40

I have an overwhelming desire to shove something sharp into every Tau player I know just so I never have to play against any of this new stuff.

However I like the method of the release, and am hopeful for the future.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Tue Oct 27 2015, 11:22

I'd just get crazy and use soulfright tactics and the archangel bomb. Make them pay!

Concentrate my fire onto the ethereal at first to get the moral boost under control.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Tue Oct 27 2015, 11:30

Some of the formations are strong, but a lot of the bonuses don't really affect us. Tau getter better at focusing down a single unit, we tend to MSU. Tau auto hit rear armour, we are AV10 all round, etc.

On the bright side it's not Eldar level cheese.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Wed Oct 28 2015, 10:59

Get as much LOS blocking terrain on the table as you can boys! Anything visible and in range is a compost heap! Even more so than before!

Keep ur head down, go MSU and as always, play the (hopefully maelstrom) mission.
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Thu Oct 29 2015, 00:36

Another GMC to deal with... that's the worst for me.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Thu Oct 29 2015, 20:36

For me, it all comes down to which interpretation of "Coordinated Firepower" the community decides to go with...

RAW: Bring Darkstride, a Buff commander, and buy Target Lock for every model. Put 1 Markerlight on an enemy unit. Now your entire army har +2 BS, Ignore Cover, Tank/monsterhunter, and every enemy unit has -1 Toughness. And you can do this for as many different targets each turn as you have Target Locks and Gargantuan weapons.

RAI (I hope): The entire army only share the benefits of Markerlights and +1BS, not whatever buff they would otherwise share with their unit.
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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Fri Oct 30 2015, 09:35

We will just still die to no cover shooting... They just better now at it...
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Fri Oct 30 2015, 09:45

I don't get the hype. So that new mega squad can have split fire. So what? That still only allows one model to take another target.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Fri Oct 30 2015, 11:21

@CptMetal wrote:
I don't get the hype. So that new mega squad can have split fire. So what? That still only allows one model to take another target.

It's not split fire. Target Lock enables the equipped model to target a separate unit. You can take one for 5 points on most suits and some infantry squads. So what you potentially have is the entire Tau army with twin-linked, Tank/Monster Hunter and Ignores Cover, capable of shooting at several different targets and, with just one markerlight on each target, needing 2+ (re-rollable) to hit. It could literally wipe out our entire army turn 1.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Fri Oct 30 2015, 23:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
It could literally wipe out our entire army turn 1.

Yeah, that about sums it up... Goes back to building more LOSB terrain.
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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sat Oct 31 2015, 06:43

I have yet to face it or know of it, the Tau player at my game store was talking about it, he bailed on the tournament, because he says, the new thing makes his current codex.. 'Redundant'

He had a formations book, with certain models, that cannot be destroyed targeted or anything or the sort, but become casualties if friendly models aren't within inches of it, not to mention these are massive missile spots, basically, just a bunch of op bs that I'm getting used to. Lol

Please don't double post, use the edit button instead (See forum rules). Thanks. - Mush

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sat Oct 31 2015, 10:57

@The Fume Knight wrote:
He had a formations book, with certain models, that cannot be destroyed targeted or anything or the sort, but become casualties if friendly models aren't within inches of it, not to mention these are massive missile spots, basically, just a bunch of op bs that I'm getting used to. Lol

Are you complaining about the 10pt tactical support turret, "massive missile spots", that the fire warrior squad can place if they don't move? It can't be targeted, but get removed if the unit moved more than 2" away (but can be placed again in subsequent turns). It's basically some really complicated rules for given a model what is effectively a 2 shot S7 AP4 heavy 2 weapon. It's no different to a guard squad taking a weapon team with an auto cannon (except for the auto cannon has longer range).

I can't see what you are complaining about. The new Tau book has a lot of powerful stuff, the tactical support turret is not among them.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sat Oct 31 2015, 17:45

My pet peeve is still there:
Fire Warriors have Haywire Grenades; ergo can still wipe the floor with any non-titan walker in close combat. Absolutely ridiculous. No
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sat Oct 31 2015, 17:53

How are Tau looking against Corsairs - i.e. Dark Eldar 2.0? Laughing

@Rokuro wrote:
My pet peeve is still there:
Fire Warriors have Haywire Grenades; ergo can still wipe the floor with any non-titan walker in close combat. Absolutely ridiculous. No

I think Tau stole our Haywire Grenades. There are now so few that only our sergeants and HQs can afford them, and they still have to pay about 5 times their market value.
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 03:31

@Sigmaril wrote:
For me, it all comes down to which interpretation of "Coordinated Firepower" the community decides to go with...

RAW: Bring Darkstride, a Buff commander, and buy Target Lock for every model. Put 1 Markerlight on an enemy unit. Now your entire army har +2 BS, Ignore Cover, Tank/monsterhunter, and every enemy unit has -1 Toughness. And you can do this for as many different targets each turn as you have Target Locks and Gargantuan weapons.

RAI (I hope): The entire army only share the benefits of Markerlights and +1BS, not whatever buff they would otherwise share with their unit.

Anyone saying the RAW version is correct needs their head checked. That's a refused game right there. The rule says they fire as if there were a single unit - not that they are a single unit. As a TO, I could never in good conscience rule it as pure RAW as you described

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 10:09

I just dislike the mechanics behind things like that, any Tau player will always cement their guys into locations, digging them out is a joke already, if they have these missile pods that won't need to be replaced since the units hardly move, not to mention these added shields that certain units dispense along with Marker Lights are insane, this just seems like a way to give them even more defense against advancing enemies.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 10:13

@Massaen wrote:
@Sigmaril wrote:
For me, it all comes down to which interpretation of "Coordinated Firepower" the community decides to go with...

RAW: Bring Darkstride, a Buff commander, and buy Target Lock for every model. Put 1 Markerlight on an enemy unit. Now your entire army har +2 BS, Ignore Cover, Tank/monsterhunter, and every enemy unit has -1 Toughness. And you can do this for as many different targets each turn as you have Target Locks and Gargantuan weapons.

RAI (I hope): The entire army only share the benefits of Markerlights and +1BS, not whatever buff they would otherwise share with their unit.

Anyone saying the RAW version is correct needs their head checked. That's a refused game right there. The rule says they fire as if there were a single unit - not that they are a single unit. As a TO, I could never in good conscience rule it as pure RAW as you described

I clearly need my head checked then because I see zero arguments RAW against it. I think it's an absolute abomination in terms of power but there really are no genuine rules arguments against it. It's also been 'confirmed' by GW that the RAW reading is correct, albeit in an e-mail from the White Dwarf team. But that's about as official as it gets these days.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 11:56

WOW - missed that one Count.

Did not mean any disrespect either mate. Besides, you don't agree with the rule and its about agreeing its a good thing that's the problem

Where was it confirmed? Link to the forum/post/blog whatever?

I am still expecting any half sane TO to rule it otherwise

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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 12:59

I'm skeptical about being able to target lock to a different unit and have the buffmander's bonuses because it only says you are treated as a single unit when firing at the designated target. I say that as a player with a Tau army as well. We talked about it at my store and I think that's going to be the consensus for us anyways. Share rules, sure, but only against the one target unit.

If your area lets the target lock split fire with bonuses, the good news is that they have to tie up their support systems in target locks instead now. Broadsides and Crisis suits only have slots to get one support system so they won't have early warning override if that's what they build for. That means you can null deploy and deepstrike around them or just enter from table edges depending on your army comp to hit him before he gets to use it.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 18:20

But only one model in a unit can target another target with the split fire rule. So yeah, he can shoot with all bonuses at one squad. And one model of all those squads can target something else.

I'm not really afraid of that since I don't use death stars.
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 18:26

@CptMetal wrote:
But only one model in a unit can target another target with the split fire rule. So yeah, he can shoot with all bonuses at one squad. And one model of all those squads can target something else.

I'm not really afraid of that since I don't use death stars.

No, you're missing that the Target Lock does not give the models split fire.  If that were the case, then yes only one could shoot at a different target.  The target lock allows each model with the system to designate its own target.  It does not use the split fire rule.
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 21:00

But only the gargantuan creatures got that, right?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: First thoughts on new tau?   Sun Nov 01 2015, 21:20

Nope, it's a 5 point upgrade available to most suits and some squads. You could, for example, have a unit of 9 Crisis Suits, each targeting separate units.

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