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 A new Phoenix Lord?

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Cailos
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PostSubject: A new Phoenix Lord?   Mon Sep 26 2011, 21:21

From pictures of the Game Day there looks like their is going to be a new Phoenix Lord add and it will be for the Shadow Spectres aspects. He is rumored to have a 5+ inv Save and a 4+ inv save if the model shooting him/her is more than 12" away. That is all I know and I am really interested in knowing more make the IA11 will have its rules.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 14:22

the problem is he is most likely going to suffer from PL syndrome... sad but true. These ICs have a long history and interesting background, but until GW figures out that ICs without Invuls are not worth 2 troop choice worth of points...

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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 14:33

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
the problem is he is most likely going to suffer from PL syndrome... sad but true. These ICs have a long history and interesting background, but until GW figures out that ICs without Invuls are not worth 2 troop choice worth of points...
He does have an Inv Save I said it in my post.
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shadow hunter
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 14:52

I want a wapr spider pheonix lord.

Actually I want decent phoenix lords. They are amongst my favourite all time characters (especially Karandras) but they are extremely over priced considering the lack of invulnerable save.

What worries me is that Drazhar didn't really change the format or cost.

I'm not really bothered by forgeworld. I like a lot of the models - but their rules always seem a smidge over the top.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 14:54

IMHO 5++ isn't good (my Cyber-biker-warboss constantly dies like a ...). That's why Terminators (and terminator-IC) get 3++ from Storm Shield and 4++ from Iron Halo.

4++ from shooting from 12"? Rarely matter until You nerf cover saves.

But I would like to see stats/point cost first.
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 15:42

@Local_Ork wrote:
But I would like to see stats/point cost first.

Well atleast we know the stats, since they are universal over all PLs, as for price who knows... the only other invul PL is the second most expensive (next to Darazhar... who saw that coming)

[quote="shadow hunter']What worries me is that Drazhar didn't really change the format or cost.[/quote]

This worries me aswell, considering we waited so long for a codex, and when Eldar gets their update, the formula for PLs is probably going to change. So what are they going to do about Darazhar??? Also the same could be said about Harlies as well... hopefully the FAQ our book to reflect on any new abilities, like the PL allowing to take his aspect as troops or something like that. (I personally would love to see Incubi as troop choices Razz )

@Cailos wrote:
He does have an Inv Save I said it in my post.
A 5+ is nothing, sure it was fine when most characters barely got any, and Eldar were the weird ones with 3++ and 4++ abound, and those are on support characters. It was natural for the PL, who could whip up some MEQ to not have any. It was their one downfall. Even when their dex was new people complained about their point cost. After them though characters started rocking 4++ and better (5ed storm shields anyone???) a 5++ is just not enough, ask any ork player (oh... hey Local_Ork) Or just look as DE, who has a 5++ on their vehicles. It doesnt save you all the time, and any CC character is going to need a decent amount of protection since ICs can be singled out in CC.




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Cailos
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Sep 27 2011, 15:45

@Local_Ork wrote:
IMHO 5++ isn't good (my Cyber-biker-warboss constantly dies like a ...). That's why Terminators (and terminator-IC) get 3++ from Storm Shield and 4++ from Iron Halo.

4++ from shooting from 12"? Rarely matter until You nerf cover saves.

But I would like to see stats/point cost first.
Yea a 5++ isn't that great but its better than no Inv Save at all. He will be one of only two PLs with a Inv Save which is a huge to us all. We all wish that poor Drazhar had one not even a close combat one which would have made sense. But I view any ++ save to be better than no save at all, at least its a chance to not take a wound.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Mon Dec 19 2011, 20:59

5+ with Eldar is little different that all the other races 5+, cause it can be rerolled with fortune. Rerollable 5+ is statistically better then 4+.

Thats why Harlies are tougher when assaulting Termies then banshees, cause they can have rerollable 5+, while shee's cant have any.
Really bane of current PL is inability of wound allocation within squads, if 6th will change it so they can kill hidden Power Fists all of them would be far more viable.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Dec 20 2011, 14:15

the sad part was 5th did bring around the ways to kill the hidden power fist. Before the Sarge was always the last to go (well... maybe a special weapon, but that was rare) so it was impossible to kill that power fist until the entire squad was gone. Now adays atleast we have a chance with current wound allocation.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Dec 20 2011, 18:10

Indeed, it made Power Fists pretty pointless. Unless You play SpOrks.
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Dec 20 2011, 19:57

@Local_Ork wrote:
Indeed, it made Power Fists pretty pointless. Unless You play SpOrks.

I wouldnt say completely useless. Marines still take them, if not only for wound alocation (say... thunderwolves) but BB Marines its still probably their best threat from just being charged by a dread, and it makes several IC toting squads think twice about going in (well... not for us... our 2++ is pretty badass, but most ICs rock only a 4++) and then there are always the random people still swearing by MCs... Also its a good investment if your tri-melta fails to kill a tank (I have seen it happen many a time) and sometimes your sarge just has to go beat it with his oversided fist.

They are still very prevailant, even outside of SpOrks. Just most you see these days are MSU Razorback Spam and GK shenanigans...
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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Dec 20 2011, 21:17

I'll go ahead and second Shadow there - they're not what they used to be, but they're still fairly aggressively present.

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PostSubject: Re: A new Phoenix Lord?   Tue Dec 20 2011, 21:20

I also see them *sometimes*, most likely on Terminators (TH count) and big (not small) jump marine squads.
Not combat squadded tacticals tho (and outside of MM+MG in Rhino combo, they ALWAYS combat squad because picking them without special weapon is considered as fail [it's not]).
Fear of losing it scare people on "paper" level so they are rarely included and often replaced by worse PW/MBomb combo (because it strike first and can damage tanks).
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