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YoungArchon
Hellion
YoungArchon

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PostSubject: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2015, 20:10

I recently picked up a box of 16 3rd edition kabalites, and I adore them; quite specifically the helmets and shoulders. But when listening to splintermind quite often Brian bashes 3rd edition models, whereas Thor defends them. The only other third edition model I've seen is the talos, which looks a bit too much like a jetbike with a glandular problem for me to like. So I ask you to share your 3rd edition models and whether you like the current sculpts more or less than the new ones
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2015, 21:32

@YoungArchon wrote:
But when listening to splintermind quite often Brian bashes 3rd edition models, whereas Thor defends them.

I suppose I do give them a rough ride on the show Razz

To be honest, I haven't sold a single one of my original 3rd edition models. It's not that they're total garbage for the most part IMHO, it's that the new ones are vastly superior in appearance. Here are some of the oldies in my case:
Kabalites:
3rd edition models 2011-10-22_09-12-55_500
My old Dracon (think of a two wound Archon, sort of a light HQ choice)
3rd edition models 2011-10-22_09-13-45_671
Wyches and Haemonculus!
3rd edition models 2011-10-22_09-14-34_363
Old school Reavers!
3rd edition models 2011-10-22_09-16-25_323
This is a unit of Kabalites mixed with current weapons from my current army:
3rd edition models IMG_20141116_183309809

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Calyptra
Wych
Calyptra

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2015, 21:39

I love the old sculpts, and refuse to make a preferential choice between them and the current ones. I do think they don't mix and match very well, but that's alright. I'm ok with working on two separate and distinct Kabals.

Some things I actually prefer about the classic range:

- splinter weapon design
- gender mix in Wyches - there's no reason for them to be all women.
- Mandrakes, which is actually saying something because I think the current Mandrakes are gorgeous
- multiple versions of HQs - two Archons and two Haemonculi, plus special characters allowing for conversion opportunities leading to even more diversity
- special characters: the classic range had models for 5 (out of 6) vs the current range which only has 2 (Drazhar is a classic model, so I'm counting him as such)
- Reavers; again, the current ones are gorgeous, but I think there's something really unique and interesting about the older, more insect-like bikes.
- Sybarites

Some things I don't like about the classic range:

- I hate the Grotesque models. I wanted more Hellraiser and instead I got weird zombies.
- Converting weapon options for Kabalites other than splinter cannons was annoying, unless you were ok with using the same two awkward metal sculpts for everything.
- I love the old Incubi models, especially the ones that came with Vect, except for the helmet guns. The helmet guns are stupid.
- Ok, Kruellagh has problems, and everyone insisting on painting her bodysuit as skin for some dumb reason isn't doing her any favors. The main issue I have with the model is the positioning of her legs and feet.

Cases in the classic range where I think a really good model is obscured by a single dubious design choice:

- The Talos. I suspect the model will work much better once I grind off all the random junk stuck on the prow.
- The male Archon. I think his skin mask and his giant agonizer could each work individually, but not both together. It's less problematic, but I also think the female Archon needs a weapon swap.

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CptMetal
Trueborn
CptMetal

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2015, 21:41

Ugh. I definitely hate those old models. I started playing dark Eldar when the new models dropped, I never wouldn't done so when I had to use those coffee machine hat wearing Space Elves.
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Squidmaster
Klaivex
Squidmaster

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 08:49

I love them.

I think they're still excellent. In some cases I'd even say better than the current ones.
The old Lilith Hesperax for example was far superior to the new one, and I much prefer the older Incubi (I just don't get on with the new ones, they just don;t seem distinct enough from basic Kabalite Armour).
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 09:40

Some around here may deem me heretical (Thor, I'm looking at you!) but I cannot stand the old range of DE models. I wanted to collect a DE army back in 3e because I loved the rules and background but I simply couldn't face all those Gary Morley sculpts without wanting to be violently sick. So I waited until the absolutely beautiful 5e range was released to realise my dream.

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Wulfvin
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 15:41

I personally can't stand the old models. They look too clunky and awkward to be the lithe, agile Dark Eldar I imagine.

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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 16:32

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Some around here may deem me heretical (Thor, I'm looking at you!) but I cannot stand the old range of DE models. I wanted to collect a DE army back in 3e because I loved the rules and background but I simply couldn't face all those Gary Morley sculpts without wanting to be violently sick. So I waited until the absolutely beautiful 5e range was released to realise my dream.

You're not heretical, you have ocular competency. Razz Razz

This is inexcusable:
3rd edition models Kruellagh_the_Vile

Let's break this model down:
-She borrowed her size 22 boots from Shaq
-Are those artillery pieces sticking out of her palms?
-Those assets are....substantial. Did a horny 13yr old boy sculpt this model?
Oh wait, Gary Morley. I'll stop right now.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 16:55

JES GOODWIN

GARY MORLEY

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3rd edition models YhBv3Wk
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 17:07

@Count Adhemar wrote:
JES GOODWIN

GARY MORLEY

3rd edition models Drops-mic-and-leaves-stage

Nailed it.

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3rd edition models JVMWVbU
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 21:26

I will add in as a note for everyone dishing on Morley, that you are both overlooking the mechanics of the times, and also confusing proportions with skill.

As an example, I would choose to *super* nerd up this conversation by referencing comic books.
Arguably, a "good" comic artist should have stuff that looks like this;
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8EdQfxUkZnc/UJ1fSKNPy0I/AAAAAAAAWkE/8AeGQtOxSLQ/s1600/Norman_Rockwell_Museum_Heroes__Villains_The_Comic_Book_Art_of_Alex_Ross.png

and not like this;
http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

But one of the greatest and most beloved comic artists played really loosely with scale and proportion;
https://marswillsendnomore.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/omac-jack-kirby-scans007.jpg

That's because something can be proportionally "bad" but can still be good...or be bad. I apply the same thought to the art of the current books. In most objective ways to judge art the new art in the codices and 40k books is better than ever. However, in a subjective stance, the new art generally feels cold to me, and nowhere near as cool and emotive as the old RT stuff.

I feel that same way about the old sculpts. You can sit and point out some as "bad" and some as "good" on objective scales. But, at the end of the day, what matters is how the models make you feel. Do they feel cool? Do they feel Dark Eldary? Or do they feel boring or dumb?

Yes, Kruellagh has issues. But I will note (taking Brian's issues to heart) that the boots don't bug me, and the weaponized hands are a limitation of the tools of the time, not a limitation of a bad idea. I will agree she's top heavy, though clearly some people like that. The thing that makes that sculpt fail is that the pose is a little derpy - and so she's not scary. But if you go read the original Kruellagh fluff, or look at the original Kruellagh art; I think she's a great character.

Conversely let's look at the Wych sculpts. The old ones may be technically inferior, the poses may be a touch flat, and the proportions may be more off than the GW "heroic scale" norm, but does that make them inherently bad? Frankly, if you go and read the fluff of what the Wyches are, and imagine yourself some space elf murder gladiators; I would submit that ol' Morely came *way* closer to the intended concept than the current plastic line (which basically looks like Kabalites baring midriffs and not wearing helmets, to me - not that exciting or different). But the old Wyches looked and felt different than the Warriors, as I think they should. So what makes them "bad" at that point? I guess if hair metal and gladiators aren't your thing, then they're not, but I don't think the sculpts are actually "bad" in any way that other sculpts and sculptors of the time were not also "bad".

As for some 3rd edition goodness;

3rd edition models 275525_sm-Dark%20Eldar

3rd edition models 101736_sm-Army%2C%20Army%20Profile%2C%20Dark%20Eldar%2C%20De

3rd edition models 661987_sm-

3rd edition models 661981_sm-

3rd edition models 101716_sm-Army%2C%20Army%20Profile%2C%20Dark%20Eldar%2C%20De

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Calyptra
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 21:45

If we're judging the entire 3rd ed model range based on Kruellagh, should we then also judge the entire 5th ed range based on the Grotesque?

I love the muscle tone and expressive faces on the classic Wyches. I think they're beautifully sculpted models.

Also, Jack Kirby is the man.

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Azdrubael
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 21:52

I would really love to have old style Archon if it is well proportioned and detailed.

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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 21:54

@Calyptra wrote:
If we're judging the entire 3rd ed model range based on Kruellagh, should we then also judge the entire 5th ed range based on the Grotesque?

I love the muscle tone and expressive faces on the classic Wyches. I think they're beautifully sculpted models.

Also, Jack Kirby is the man.

Agree on the Wyches. They were fantastic models for their time. I give that Kruelagh model the hardest time because I thought it was one of the worst models of 3rd edition back in 3rd edition. It's just hard to look at most of these sculpts after looking at 3rd edition CWE sculpts. Compare the proportions of the current Swooping Hawks or Guardians (both 3rd Edition releases) and tell me that these are on par Evil or Very Mad

That being said, the plastic jebikes still hold up IMHO.

I should really shut up given that this is a discussion that we will be having on Episode 17 of Splintermind...

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3rd edition models JVMWVbU
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Tengu
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 22:19

I just dont like skunk stripes...though probably they work for Eldar

(Like funky anime coloured hair...Heck, Im sorry, guys, Im old enough to remember Punk.)

To my mind big bosoms dont work for Eldar, I have a mental image of more like an attitude problemed teenage girl.

I had a lot of 3rd Ed...I was just in love with Evil Space Elves. I mean thats what mythical elves are like, arent they...seriously scary dudes

...Whom somehow you still love.
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The Shredder
Trueborn
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 15 2015, 22:40

@Evil Space Elves wrote:

This is inexcusable:
3rd edition models Kruellagh_the_Vile

I swear that's a Marvel character. Shocked
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Tengu
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 16 2015, 15:00

I do like the old Kabalites though, they make good `unbranded` Corsairs or Exodites

I also mix and match them with my new Kabalites. I got 4 squads out of 2 boxes that way.
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Thor665
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 16 2015, 16:31

@Tengu wrote:
.I was just in love with Evil Space Elves.
I'm sure he's flattered, but he's married Wink

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YoungArchon
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 16 2015, 17:48

@Thor665 wrote:
@Tengu wrote:
.I was just in love with Evil Space Elves.
I'm sure he's flattered, but he's married Wink

There goes my fan-fiction
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Tengu
Wych
Tengu

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 16 2015, 21:23

Dont worry about it, Im sure Im big and gnarly enough to scare off his wife.
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Calyptra
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 16 2015, 21:38

No paltry thing like marriage will stop me from shipping Evil Space Elves and Kruellagh.

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 17 2015, 03:04

Price, like in pretty much every situation, illustrates the general preference here.  3rd edition models are worth very little, despite the fact that they've been out of production for a long time.  Scanning ebay(US) as often as I do; it's not uncommon to see 3rd edition kabalites for 25 cents a piece, while the newer versions rarely fall below a dollar per.  To put that in perspective, even generic bases shipped from china cost about 17 cents a piece, and 3rd edition kabalites are often stuck to a piece of GW plastic worth more than the model itself.

I have to say though that these prices are what actually what got me back into 40k after what was my longest break from the game:

I was selling off the last of my orks and guard a few years ago, when I stumbled on a huge ebay lot of 3rd edition dark eldar models.  I remember my final bid was $79, and that was because I had just sold a few 3rd edition metal mega-nobs for that amount...

So basically in exchange for 5 (yes five) 3rd edtion metal ork models I got: 5 raiders, 3 talos, 15 Warp Beasts (kymarea), 30 scourges, 12 reaver jetbikes, 2 ravagers and roughly 80 other infantry.  The plastic was all still on the sprue and most of the metals were in blisters (Urien, Kreula, Drazhar, and Leilith still hanging in theirs).  That's a pretty sad ratio when you step back and look at it.

I thought that this was pretty brag-worthy so I told some of my gaming buddies about my purchase.  It turns out though that all of them had unwanted 3rd edition dark eldar stuff laying around and either literally or practically gave it to me.  By the time they were done I had something in the neighborhood of 200 plastic kabalites.  I did have to spend about $40 to base them all though.

The funny part is:  After I realized I would never field 200 kabalites I started converting them to human slaneeshi cultists for my CSM army (which eventually turned into a renegades and heretics blob fest).  Then of course, I spent a small fortune on 5th edition kabalites and scourges to replace them. scratch
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CptMetal
Trueborn
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 17 2015, 05:03

Ah. Plastic crack doing it again. Very Happy
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Scrz
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Scrz

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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 22 2015, 12:09

I have mixed feelings about the 3rd ed. model line. I like some models, but loathe most of them, and I have done since day one. This resulted in a lot of customisation and kitbashing with models borrowed from fantasy. It also dictated my playstyle a little bit because I refused to buy any models that I did not like. In my opinion the mandrakes were the worst sculpts by far. I never liked the talos, hellions, wyches, beasts, grots and most of the named characters either. To be honest I disliked most of the regular warriors as well. Why did I start this army again...

Anyway, with a little tweaking of my main problem with the warriors, the brio clown helmet syndrome, I was able to make them kinda OK looking. I also grouped similarly designed helmets together in squads to represent different factions.

I still use 30 warriors, a raider, a ravager and some custom characters alongside the new models.

3rd edition models Dcim9310

3rd edition models Dcim9610

3rd edition models Dcim9710

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 3rd edition models   3rd edition models I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 22 2015, 12:21

One of my friends used to have some of the old DE models. I remember was him doing some head-swaps and painting them as various Dragonball Z characters. It worked quite well.

Unfortunately, they were lost some time ago so I can't get any pictures.
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