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 Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?

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Blackfel
Hellion
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PostSubject: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Fri Oct 09 2015, 22:29

Quick question: can the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage choose not to use his Great Axe of Khorne in melee, and instead use the standard Monstrous Creature Smash rule? With smash he's Strength 6, AP2, so it's better against infantry than striking at Initiative 1 with the "D" axe.

Thanks in advance!

Blackfel
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Fri Oct 09 2015, 22:41

The axe has Unwieldy?

Even with Smash, he is still forced to use the Axe. (Unless he actually has a weapon.)
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Blackfel
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PostSubject: Re: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Fri Oct 09 2015, 23:04

The stats for the Great Axe of Khorne are Strength D, AP2, Melee, Colossal. "Colossal: A model with this weapon Piles In and fights at Initiative step 1."

Reading the Colossal rule makes it pretty clear. I thought it was the same as Unwieldy, which is slightly different. "Unwieldy: A model attacking with this weapon Piles In and fights at Initiative step 1, unless it is a Monstrous Creature or a Walker."

In the description of Unwieldy, the phrase "A model attacking with this weapon..." means that if you don't use the weapon you are not hit with a penalty. In the Colossal rule, the way it's worded implies that just holding the weapon is enough to slam it with the Initiative penalty.

Thanks for the reply! You made me take a second look at the wording.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Fri Oct 09 2015, 23:47

Unless I'm confusing it with an older edition, you always have to use the weapon you have, unless you explicitly have more than one. Then you can pick between them.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Sat Oct 10 2015, 15:39

Well, the basic answer is "no, you must always use a weapon in order to attack".
This is supported because all rules for damage are based off checking a weapon's profile - so without a weapon you cannot cause damage.

All non-vehicle units in the game will have at least 1 melee weapon no matter what, so every non-vehicle can always fight in melee.

The Bloodthirster of Rage has a single melee weapon - the axe. He is obligated to use that axe for his melee attacks because he has no other weapon option available to him.
Smash does not allow it to avoid its initiative step rule, which does obligate it to follow its melee weapon rule - so, sorry, no I9 raging Bloodthirster.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Can a monstrous creature choose not to use a melee weapon?   Sat Oct 10 2015, 16:51

Some argue that by using the rewards (when using him via Codex Daemons) he can get a second weapon and thus get the option to strike first.

The issue is that his version of colossal only requires you to have the weapon, not be using it

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