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Rathian
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PostSubject: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 11:23

What elements would you change to make the army stand up better to other 7th edition armies?

New PfP?

Turn 1: zilch
Turn 2: Feel No Pain (6+)
Turn 3: FnP, S+1
Turn 4: FnP, S+1, Fearless
Turn 5: Fnp, S+1, Fearless, T+1

How about the return of Envenomed Blades as a purchase option for Wyches? Couple of points per model, makes all close combat weapons Poisoned (4+)?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 11:31

Moving this to Discussion - Count Adhemar

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 11:51

1) Kabalite Warriors 4+ save (EVERY OTHER codex "warriors type" are 4+ we are the ONLY dex that is 5+)
2) Ravorwing: At least 1 Missiles be Haywire and front gun able to be a twin-link Blaster (AA instead AI)
3) Wyches: 2pts cheaper and ALWAYS 4++
4) Wracks: More weapon options (both melee/shooting 2 Weapons per 5, they are Elites)
5) Hellions: Cheaper
6) Formations (Real formation)

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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 12:14

I like the haywire missles and the wych point reduction.

Buffing the Voidraven to be on par with the Phoenix bomber would be sweet. Right now its just a more expensive Razorwing with a bomb that I don't need.

Jetbikes for Archons and/or Succubi.

Some more useful pieces of wargear would be nice.

Oh, and I'd love to have an interesting and useful special character.

Formations a la Ravenwing please. Although they're so good they're almost silly imo.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 12:17

Whilst I appreciate that this is wishlisting, could I just point out that asking for anything that involves a change to an existing plastic model is just not going to happen. So, for example, asking for the Shredder to have different rules is fine but asking for it to be replaced with a totally different weapon is not, as that option is not present on the Kabalite Warrior sprue. Personally I'd love Venoms to have the option to replace Splinter Cannons with Disintegrator Cannons but again, not an option on the model so not going to happen Sad

As far as codex tweaks, here's just a few of mine:
Vect as Lord of War with decent rules
Talos and Cronos available in mixed units (1-3 of any type)
Power from Pain moving to a Khorne Daemonkin blood tithe kind of mechanic
Change Shredder to a template weapon
Ravagers in squadrons of 1-3 with bonuses for taking 3
Wyches with Poison, Rending and Dodge save that applies to all wounds in the assault phase
Army-wide special rule enabling I test to avoid damage from vehicle explosions and to disembark from a vehicle moving at cruising speed
Decent formations
Razorwing having missile options that enable it to actually be a fighter rather than a bomber
Vector Dancer and option for flickerfields on both flyers
Points decrease on Voidraven
Complete revamp of Wych Weapons with rules that benefit the entire unit and don't suck
Reaver jetbike and skyboard options for Archon and Succubus (new plastic kits)
Vastly improved Artefacts of Cruelty and removal of 1/model limit
Ghostplate option for Archon
Greater utility for Haemonculi
Defence/offence against psykers that actually works
Make Hellions useful

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 12:40

Super heavy raider
gargantuan creature coven beast
PA2 weapon for the archon
Add Eternal warrior in pfp turn 5
Crucible of malediction cause the wound to the psycker directly
4+ poison for wyches
4++ save against overwatch for wyches
Urien Rakarth ability to buy Uber-Grotesque (+1 str) for 5pts each
Wrack can be troop choices if you have an haemonculus as warlord
non-hex riffle sniper squad option
Lelith hesperax option for an agoniser and the old +1 attack/ws difference mechanic
5++ saves for incubi
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 12:48

Couple of extra thoughts:

Vehicle upgrade to allow twin-linking of some weapons (some sort of targeting matrix)
Increased options for Ignores Cover
Greater number of invulnerable saves in the codex (sick and tired of being hit by stuff that allows no armour or cover saves and negates FNP)

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 13:43

Warriors: Trueborn upgrade automatically comes with Ghostplate Armour.
Wyches: Option for poisoned weapons.
Hellions: Cheaper.
Reavers: Cheaper.
Incubi: return of the hat-gun and an option for Combat Grenades.
Archon: Option for a Hellion Skyboard or a Reaver Jetbike.

+ D Weapon Dark Gate.
+ Some kind of proper anti-Psyker character.
+ Vect as Lord of War.
+ Ravens in Squadrons.
+ Dais of Destruction as a Super-Heavy.
+ Decent Formations, including one for Reaver force.


Last edited by Squidmaster on Fri Oct 09 2015, 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 14:08

Well there is a few things.

Assault grenades for assault units...
Remove the "not work" against fearless or they shall know no fear from items. That is maybe good in stories but not the game.
Wyches need better WS and poison weapons and maybe extra attack. And better war gear
Blaster and dark lance need two shots or str 9/melta
warlord traits need to be better
Drugs need to be better (no +1 WS or I)
Better characters and better gear for them. The opponent should fear CC with them not laugh at them.
The power from pain should be better like the coven one is...
Helions need a boost
A low would be nice
All vehicles need the ability to move 6 or 12 and fire with full BS.
Something anti super heavy
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RCZ
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 15:20

I would like the idea that make the dark eldar a troll race: something that not have a true really easy strategy to win, but instead offer wide counter options to the most cheesy tactics.

So:
*make the soulfright weapons ignore ATSKNF. Go f°°° you and your 2+ rerollable armour save.
* make splinter weapons EXTRA venomous. 5+ to wound gargantua creature. Remains useless to veichles. Go f°°° you and your mazinga-spam.
*Get a character that seriusly penalize all the psykers. Maybe a 12" bubble that goes perils on ANY double, not just 6's.
*Reintroduce a funny mechanics for the night shields. Maybe a +6" to hit. Nowadays it is boring as hell and costly much more.
*Give something to gain a NON-IGNORABLE cover save.
*Everybody else is just fast as us but heavily armored. Make us go fast (12") AND shoot. To justify wet tissue veichles armour.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 15:49

Hmm. Good ideas.


Ademndum:


MANDRAKES - non-ignorable cover saves.
CRUCIBLE OF MALEDICTION - super perils bubble. Lasting effect instead of one use.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 16:31

Give Soulfright a reduced effect against ATSKNF/Fearless.
Give Helglaives their +1A back, make Hellions cheaper. (Or give them bennie, like charging on the Deep Strike.
Give wyches Rending, Dodge vs all attacks. (5+, +1 against assault)
Wracks, pick one: improve FNP by one, poison by one, or reduce cost.
Stop making HQs glorified trophy sergeants. Make them force multipliers again.
But above all else: Give me Duke Sliscus back!
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 17:41

yay wishlisting

First weapons:

All splinter rifles replaced with shard carbines, while splinter pods = twin linked shard carbines; add +1-2 points per model
More haywire (electro corrosive whip?)
Concussive shooting attack (splinter weapons = fluffy and even more deadly to monsters/characters, no effect on anything with only 1 wound unless they fnp)
Pinning shooting attack (monoscythe missiles - hit the dirt or lose your head)
Strikedown shooting attack (soulfright weapons?)
Blind shooting attack (defensive grenades on kabalites and maybe darklight weapons)
More Fleshbane shooting/melee (husk blade?)
Combine liquifier and ichor injector into 1 weapon at 20 points, can't use in more than one phase per turn (like ork burnas)
Up to 2 missiles taken as vehicle upgrades on raiders. Necrotoxin/monoscythe 5 points, shatterfield 10 points.
Whips count as 6" range pistols

Now General:

Incubi helmet grants I10 poison 4+ hit every combat phase
Make reaver skyboards (not beastmasters') type jetbike
Ability to double the length of night fighting
Relentless heavy weapons
Some anti-psyker ability, probably in the form of a character similar to a culexus assassin.
Make the beast pack practical again by doubling unit size, un-nerfing razorwing flocks.
Command vehicles - allow an archon to take a ravager or razorwing for +120 points.  Let him take a shadowfield/clone field/wwp and use his BS for it's weapon$$.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 21:36

Pretty much what Count Adhemar already said.

This and let Trueborn take Heat Lances.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 21:59

I only got one wish: make soulfright weaponry work against fearless and ATSKNF. Maybe give them a +2 for fearless and +1 for ATSKNF bonus.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Fri Oct 09 2015, 22:39

Some kind of upgrade (Relic?) that makes one or more units' cover saves non ignorable would be awesome.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 00:32

Why not just a formation then?

3 Ring Circus

2 units of Reavers
2 units of Hellions
2 units of wyches

Beautiful Ambush: All units have +1 and immunity to ignores cover effects on their cover saves (this stacks with stealth or shrouded)

Silent strike: All units have ignores overwatch

Fleet of foot: All units have moves throught cover

Daring Spectacle: All units are Fearless


I may have gone overboard.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 01:21

You're of the reservation, kemosabe.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 04:34

HQs get more options (jetbike, skyboard, etc) if nothing else give these to the Succubus and Archon

The Archon needs more utility or better gear or both. Right now mine is mostly used just because the Shadowfield makes him more survivable than the Succubus and the Haemy. He's not terrible in CC nor does he excel at it.

Clonefield for the Haemy and more buffing potential or gear outside of the Coven Supplement

Succubus gets a 3++ invun in CC or a reroll on the 4++

A new member to the Court of the Archon, a Null that disrupts enemy psykers

The Huskblade gets fleshbane or ap 2 or both

Agonizer drops to 20 points

Soulfright weaponry gets a buff and becomes useful against ATSKNF. Leadership shenanigans are neat and fit nicely with our army to bad we can't bring psychic shriek without allies.

Fleshbane on more weapons in general would be nice

Incubi get grenades

More weapons or special ammo (fleshbane?) for Trueborn + option to ghostplate for cheap or free. I like the idea of heatlances as an option.

Bloodbrides can take power weapons or agonizers or something this unit really needs work

Ravagers can be taken as squads

Cronos should be able to be in squads with Talos or get a larger AoE for their +FnP or both

Coven Monsterous (or GMC) creature. It needs a high I value, good CC and needs to be able to move fast across the board. Bonus if it gets some sort of psychic protection or causes perils to those around it. Call it psychic torment or some such. Give this to the Cronos as well.

Wyches need some sort of overwatch protection and either posioned melee hits (3+ would be nice) or rending..give me a reason to take them please

Vector Dancer for the RWJF

Free or cheaper missles for the Voidraven also AV 11

Shredder becoming a template would be cool

Disintgrator becomes s6 (we really lack mid strength multi-purpose shooting)

Vect and/or Coven GMC

Some strength D weapons (the dark gate)

Void Lances on something else. I really think our heavy support is one of the weakest area of our book. Give me some jet pack sslyths or something interesting...jet pack sslyths with 24 inch void lances (I would except s6 or s7 shooting here too) and Dracon as a squad leader with ghostplate and a jet pack.

More options to twin link. Pure DE lack psychic bonuses but, our gear doesn't really help. I'm so so so tired of missing single shot lances from Raiders I don't even take them other than a gunboat full of warriors. Not to say that those single shots haven't been effective but, I never count on them.

I like the current PfP chart other than it taking so long to get army wide 5+ FnP which is basically the save on most troop units. Fearless on turn 5 is really nice though.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 09:31

Make our hq's so they are not a big stinking pile of s@#t, but actually useful and dangerous again.

Give haemonculus some reason to exist other than a web way caddy (and make them cheaper)

Improve wyches and hellions massively. I am a fluffy player and even I cannot bring myself to take them (3+ inv in combat phase - inc against over watch , poison weapons, make wych weapons actually useful. Hellions just need to be better all round - +2 attacks, cheaper)

Shadow field, night shields and most weapons need to be much cheaper. 45pts?? Wtf?

Pfp - khorne daemon kin style

Reavers - on a par with wind rider jetbikes

Let ravagers shoot 3 weapons and move 12" again

Gargantuan LOW - coven beast

D weapon option

Vect, baron sathonyx & duke slyscus back

Mandrakes still need to be improved - cheaper, better gun and a re-rollable 2+ cover save please Wink

Awesome formations like every other new codes released

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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 14:43

- Huskblade is Fleshbane AP2

- Shadowfield is 3++, re-rollable

- Reavers have 4+ Armor and every Reaver can purchase Cluster Caltrops (no one dare tell me this is OP when Scatter Bikes exist!)

- Agoniser is 15 points

- Every character/IC can take Ichor Injector

-Wyches get Shred and Rending and Dodge save works against Overwatch

-Combat Drugs are a D3 roll of +1T, +1Str, +1 to FNP

- Power from Pain works like Deamonkin Blood Tithe

- Archon gets D3 Warlord Traits on different tables if he is your Warlord; also has Eternal Warrior

- If Urien is your Warlord, all Coven units can choose either +1 Str or +1T for the whole game

- If Urien or Hameonculus is your Warlord they automatically regen one wound each turn

- Hellions get HWG (they're so bad that I dont' want to expend the mental energy trying to figure out to make them even marginal)

-Beast Packs go back to 5th edition unit size and Razorwing Flocks go back to 5th edition stats

-Lelith's CC weapon is 3+ Poison

- Every IC can take a Clone Field, Ghost Plate, or Shadowfield

- Drazhar cost decrease by 40 points and can join other units besides Incubi

- For every 5 Wracks, 4 can purchase Ossefactor

- Can mix and match Talos and Cronos in same squad

-Ravagers can move 12 and fire all weapons at full BS and can be taken in squads of three

- Venoms cost same as Vyper before purchasing second Splinter Cannon

- Trueborn can take Heat Lances, Poison 3+ Shard Carbines, or Disintegrator Cannons

- Trueborn get +1BS

- Bloodbrides same rules as Wyches but also have Poison CC weapons

- Disintegrator Cannons are Str 6

- Liquifiers are Str 4 again, have Twin-linked rule

-Talos and Cronos have PfP rule

-Cronos FNP bubble is 12 inches

- Archangel of Pain and Soul Fright work on ATSKNF units (but not Fearless units); Archangel is not one use only

Some might say this would be too much.  To those people, i would argue that it is still underpowered in the Decurion, Demi-Company, Grav Spam, Eldar, War Convocation, GMCs for everybody (but us), DA Ravenwing, Superfriends, new Tau, world in which we find ourselves.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 15:07

Put Clone fields and Night Shields back to their old rules.
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Rathian
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 17:23

Make the Void Mine a bigger blast marker, D Strength or both.

Wyches to get poisoned CC weapons and dodge works on overwatch.

Kabalites can run and shoot in same turn (same as CWE Battle Focus?)

anti-psyker Null as addition to Court of Archon (although this type of unit has been scrapped from other codexes so whatever it becomes in next one)

Wracks as Troops if Haemonculus is warlord

anti air missiles on Razorwing

Adjust WWP rule so that units ariving within 6" of unit with WWP don't scatter

Deep Strike rules a la Deathwing; run, shoot, charge after deepstriking

Shredder becomes template weapon not blast marker...


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Rathian
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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 17:34

I decided to shout my frustration into the teeth of a hurricane and emailed a link to this thread to GW customer service 10 minutes ago asking them to pass it on to whoever writes the DE codex.... Just got a reply back from a helpful lady who said she had done just that!!! Not expecting anything to come from it mind, but at least someone at GW took the time to reply.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex tweaks you'd like to see   Sat Oct 10 2015, 19:31

More special characters and non USR rules army wide.
Void lance D ap2
Void mine Vortex ap2
Wyches and hellions playable. Point reduction/rending.
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