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 An Archons Nemesis

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:11

So of curiosity, since I'm still newish to the game, I know generally the dark eldar forces strengths to a degree, but I do wonder what the biggest fears of a Dark Eldar leader in close combat, I'm talking the melee units of other armies, If I'm using an Archon with an Agoniser and a Shadow Field, He's a pretty big force to be reckoned with, I don't see too many units that would make him look bad. But I do worry about certain units, Like a Hive Tyrant, bone swords that would Instakill on a 6. If I were to throw an Archon against a monster like that would It basically be a suicide mission? Since the Archon doesn't have any special rules that deny insta-kills he basically is in a bit of a rough spot. If I were to throw Drazhar against a behemoth like that, his eternal warrior would stop any instakills, not to mention he's very formidable, just with a less chance to hit with the Demiklaives. Any thoughts? I feel like the initiative a Archon would not be the underdog against most other army leader units.

Likewise, if I'm staging an Archon with a Huskblade and soul trap, trying to get challenges, where should I start? I feel like needing 5+ to kill on most guys is not good at all. But If I could get some souls, that would increase, and he would be a terror on the field, where should I start with that?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:14

Avoid anything with S6+ as that's instant death as soon as you roll a 1 on your save. And you WILL roll a 1 on your save, much sooner than you think. Much as I might wish otherwise, the melee Archon is much better at taking on troops rather than enemy badass characters.

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:22

Hmm. Alright, so basically, stick to space marine captains and the like, and avoid bloodthirsters and broodlords at all costs?

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:45

Space marine captains tend to have a 3++ and S8...
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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:51

Well if what is said is true, then, yeah, a captain with a power fist would instant kill an Archon if I rolled a 1 on the die, which is fairly possible, but I also figure, with 4 attacks and a far higher initiative step, with an agoniser per say, I would have a very solid chance of killing the captain before he would kill my Archon, and if I had a huskblade, basically at that point, if i roll a 5 or 6 I instant kill I roll a 1 I get instakilled, or do I have it wrong? :s

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 10:51

@The Fume Knight wrote:
Hmm. Alright, so basically, stick to space marine captains and the like, and avoid bloodthirsters and broodlords at all costs?

I'd avoid anything from the HQ section of pretty much any book other than Imperial Guard Smile

On a more serious note, anything S6+, anything with a 2+ save, anything with T5+ (unless you're using a poison weapon). They will all either murder you or ignore you.

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 11:04

Ugh. How depressing to hear. XD oh well, good to know for sure. My Archons thats I have played usually have been fairly lucky against most enemies then, my first archon with a Huskblade, instakilled a destroyer lord and a elite necron unit in a single turn, which was great, then in a dif game, My archon battled a space marine captain, of which was a challenge issued by the sm player, his captain had a power axe, my archon landed two wounds first initiave step with an agoniser, and didn't take any damage, then proceeded to finish him the next turn, but still, I wasn't up against a very beefed up warlord.

I guess if it comes to duels, I'll stick to Drazhar, that butcher has never let me down at any point of me using him. Lol

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 11:44

I would put him against anything I can kill. Take an agoniser and soul trap with shadow field and try to get your strength bonus. If you get enough you get to re roll statist other units and then it's payback time!
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 12:14

Good questions about the Archon. Be selective of your target and be an absolute bully! Today I had my Archon tear into a chaos sorcerer and some CSMs with a retinue of rampaging grotesques. The sorcerer had no warp charges left and I felt based on the odds, I would get my huskblade to work before he'd get his 3 power sword attacks through me. I softened up the unit with other stuff until I would JUST get the benefit of rampage and then I charged in.

I threw 6 dice for charging into combat, expect 4 of them to hit. All of them did. I then knew I had a better than 1 in 3 chance of scoring a 5 or 6. He duffed one of his invulnerable saves, it only takes one, and I got a maelstrom point for killing a psyker. Play the percentages!

There were 2 other enemy units within 8" of this melee I started, too. I had to be careful about counter assault. These units had far more dominating CC characters in them. So I roadblocked them first in my shooting phase with flat out moves from my spare raiders. This gave me enough time to beat the sorcerer and consolidate well away from LOS of those oncoming units. It was, admittedly, very crafty. It was one of the many cool tricks you can pick up by spending time at this forum.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 12:43

Aye, Chaos is a bit easy on this. They lack proper weapons, armor and invul saves, so even their CC monsters are somewhat manageable. (The best save the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut will ever get is a 3+ /4++) As an icing on the cake they have to issue challenges so you can feed your Archon to aburd levels pretty fast as Champions no match.
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 15:25

Dreadnoughts.

Any game I've taken combat units, its been Dreadnoughts who have tied them and caused big problems.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 08 2015, 16:40

Use him as a weed eater to kill enemy troops. Personally I think the soul trap is just throwing good points after bad.
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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Fri Oct 09 2015, 10:57

Well a soul trap on an Agoniser doesn't do anything really, ironic, I spaced that, and the one game I had that paired, I landed 3ish? wounds in two assault rounds on a space marine captain with a power axe, and ofc I kill his warlord that easy with soul trap finally working. (Forgot If the captain had 3 or 4 wounds.)

Using a Huskblade I assume the Soul Trap is a must, but since challenges only go with enemy characters, and from what I heard, squad leaders do not count as 'Characters' thus I cannot deploy challenges to weak units so my archon can waltz up to a chapter master at 8 strength and instakill. The Chaos sorceror story is neat, Very Happy Archons I assume, as Dark Eldar are, are hit and run, kill and dip with some finesse, I just wish that when a enemy leader is coming to fight, hes not thinking 'I hope that guy doesn't pull a fast on and do some shady maneuver to kill me.' Instead he thinks 'Oh god that black armored azure colored terror is going to tear my warlord to pieces before my warlord can even retaliate.' haha Razz

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Fri Oct 09 2015, 11:27

Agoniser is actually a much better fit with the soul trap than the huskblade is. You don't get extra S from inflicting ID on a character so it's better to inflict wounds 1 at a time with the agoniser. It also bypassed the issue with low Strength on the Archon and if you do manage to get a few bonus S points from the Soul Trap then it becomes even better as you start getting re-rolls to wound from the poison rule. Just avoid 2+ saves!

PS - Soul Trap does work on squad leaders as long as they have the 'Character' sub-type. Usually better to target them than a big nasty IC.

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Fri Oct 09 2015, 11:37

Ohhh. I had no clue poison allows re-rolls if strength is high enough. That is neat, the Huskblade is just like the poster weapon for an Archon, I wish they had 4 strength, I feel like Drazhar does, a lord of a Kabal might have some extra muscle too. lol

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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Mon Oct 12 2015, 15:08

Chop the shooty stuff and shoot the choppy stuff. Melee Archon isnt there for duels, he is there for added degree of 2++ protection for grots units. And grots are there to punch regular stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Mon Oct 12 2015, 16:08

With a huskblade, he can clear out a couple bodyguards so the weight of the grots' attacks can reach the enemy HQs more effectively.
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Mon Oct 12 2015, 16:48

I enjoy using cc archons, even with the effing nerfs.
Its not always the actual damage output its more the threat and the ability to strike before most opponents with ID potential. Thats why I prefer the huskblade. We won't realistically do enough wounds to kill the vast majority of combat HQs so I'd rather gamble on that 1 failed save rather than gamble on not rolling that 1 on the SF.

OP- you mentioned nids. This is a match where a combat archon can potentially be epic, with either weapon choice. The lw/bs flyrant is very rare but it is not extinct, yet. I heard they are known to hang out with gargoyles. That combat is definitely not in your favor despite his 3+ save. Its basically which lucky number YOU throw.. 1 = win for him 6 = win for you only he strikes first with pseudo PE.
Don't eff with the bone tyrant if you can help it.

Also the problem with Drazhar is he joins a unit that does the same thing he does so he just adds 200 pts to it. AND he has no invuln to boot. If he could join grots he would be much much better.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Mon Oct 12 2015, 16:51

@Brom wrote:
Also the problem with Drazhar is he joins a unit that does the same thing he does so he just adds 200 pts to it. AND he has no invuln to boot. If he could join grots he would be much much better.

I'd rather just spend the 190 points on another unit of 8 Incubi with Klaivex!

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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Mon Oct 12 2015, 17:00

Haha exactly, or even 2 units 4. When I was still dipping into eldar I really enjoyed some of the different phoenix lords added to grots so I can see his potential if he had a proper platform to fight from.
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Tue Oct 13 2015, 10:08

Being honest.. and again I was pretty lucky, but I had a game where Drazhar killed 2 different squads of boyz that all got the charging advantage over the duration of about 3 game rounds, he came out with a single wound, and about 20 kills to his belt, although he did have 4-6 incubi that were in and out throughout too, although I forgot Klaives give +1 str, so I was wounding on 5+ with them, so effectiveness wasn't as good.

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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Wed Oct 14 2015, 14:14

Did the mobs have any power klaws? That's usually the issue with properly built mobs is multiple characters with klaws beat down elite things fairly well. The ablative boyz attacks are just gravy.
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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: An Archons Nemesis   Thu Oct 15 2015, 10:42

Not that I saw, cept for the warboss I think the rest had regular weapons, but yeah.

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