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 Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 08:15

So, Asdrubael Vect(My spelling may be incorrect but you all know who I mean.) From what I have read, he's a pretty powerful sounding character, old as the fall supposedly, this would mean he is more than ancient, rivaling probably Eldrad Ulthran and many others, I'm not too positive, but I do wonder if he was a character In game, how effective would he be and what type of abilities would he have? I see it currently as if he is that old, he would probably still maintain probablymany Psyker abilities, some of which are very old and powerful, I do recall in previous editions he was a character riding a 'Dais of Destruction' I never played at the time, so I don't know what advanced characteristics his Ravager would have, or what effects he would have over it as well. From what I remember in Dawn of War soulstorm, the 'Dark Scythe' Ability he overloads the main Dark Lance making it utterly destroy everything in front. But again its a game. I feel like if its a possibility of him being in game and how he would be played, this thread fits in this zone.. If not I apologize. Anyone wanna give me a quick history of his abilities back then, and what he may have, if he was put in game, in or out of his Dais?

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 08:19

I think he would be adequete as any equiped Archon in close combat. His powers should be more in effecting others (like his 4+ steal last book). Surely no psychic powers. He can have farseers to do those for him if needed.

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The Fume Knight
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 08:48

I just wonder, as Lelith Hesperax, her combat abilities are all 9's Higher than Archons, But I feel like the fact Vect has been around since The Fall, you don't think he'd retain any psychic abilities as most Eldar had to begin with?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 09:24

I've never seen anything to suggest that he has psychic abilities. If he makes a welcome return to the game it should be as a Lord of War with decent, but not overwhelming, combat abilities and equipment. His main strength however should be in tactics, not combat. He should make Marneus Calgar look like Arnold J Rimmer when it comes to strategy. Reserve manipulation, bonus to Seize rolls, redeployment shenanigans, the whole nine yards! Playing against an army led by Vect should be incredibly unpredictable and frustrating for the opponent as he misleads, misdirects and manipulates everything in his army and yours!

Just throwing this out there but how about WWP deployment for x units as a Warlord Trait or special ability?

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 09:55

Sorry for noobish question.. But what is WWP deployment? :c lol and in a side note, thats sort of what I was thinking, becoming the de facto ruler of Commoraugh would take much planning and scheming, Vect, is that type of person for sure. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 09:58

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:10

I would say he should have stats rivalling Eldrad if he is that old, but no psychic powers. He eliminated the others because of the threat of Slaanesh, so wouldn't be one himself.
His power primarily comes from influence and control of others, so I would say his primary abilities would come from open access to all the toys.

I think Webway Deployment would be a great move for him (Vect + however many units get a Webway Portal), and would be an excellent Warlord Trait as well. I fully endorse that idea.

The Dias I can see either as it was (basic Ravager with armour 13 all around) or with basic Ravager armour but a Shadowfield attached.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:14

Can I just head something off at the pass before we go any further on this thread? It's just something that I know will crop up a lot in the thread and I just wanted to get it out in the open nice and early.

It's D-A-I-S.

Sorry, just a real pet peeve for me. Even Games Workshop got it wrong sometimes!

PS - Yes, I know. I am OCD on this!!

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:25

Ohhh. That would be the most glorious thing in the world... I can only imagine if I had the option for webway deep strikes on all my reserves.. That would be great. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:26

Does a Dais have any special weaponry though? As for vect in previous editions, what did his vehicle have as compared to the basic ravager, if anyone knows.

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:32

@The Fume Knight wrote:
Does a Dais have any special weaponry though? As for vect in previous editions, what did his vehicle have as compared to the basic ravager, if anyone knows.

It was a Raider with AV13 all round and 3 Dark Lances.

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 10:39

Hmm. Interesting, I'd hope that if he were to arrive, perhaps the same, with 3 void lances instead? I heard someone mention a shadowfield too. On a vehicle, I wonder how that would workout. I would think the extra save of that amazing would be quite effective, plus the bit of it shorting out after a direct hit would kind of keep it from being overpowered.

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 17:23

Let's be perfectly frank, with the sheer amount of D in 7th, The dais will probably have str D weapons rather than dark or void lances. Also previous strong rumours have suggested that a new model already exists. We're just waiting for them to decide to release it.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Tue Oct 06 2015, 19:56

I think it's likely that his stats will be very similar to the old stats. Perhaps a little tweaking.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 02:14

He will probably come with the "Labyrinthine Cunning" warlord trait ;/ .
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 06:02

I'd hope that he would come with D strength weapons, because lord knows, we don't have those in this codex, and thats why the other armies basically decimate us when it comes down to higher point games, personally, I don't think that if vect did make a return in his Dais it'd come with D strength weapons, I feel like most character models don't really become a massive firing platform, I'd hope they'd just introduce more units with D strength weapons in general, the Void lance is about the best in terms of firepower in the codex, unless I haven't read enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 06:45

No you have it right, The void lance is definitely our hardest hitting weapon. That said It probably should have been D, but the D craze, and really the necessity for D in general, didn't start until February so it makes sense that our Codex that came out in the previous October doesn't have any.

It's probably a given that he'd have LC. It's SOOOO much better than the rest of our Leadership traits that's it's kind of upsetting.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 07:39

Quote :
That said It probably should have been D, but the D craze, and really the necessity for D in general, didn't start until February so it makes sense that our Codex that came out in the previous October doesn't have any.

The order in wich products are released might not be the order they have been finished in.
For example the recently released "Skarbrand" was finished in 2013, the Bloodthirster, which was released a few months before, was finished after Skarbrand.

So I'm quite sure that our codex was not intended to be a 7th edition codex.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 16:59

While I mostly agree, we need to remember that our codex isn't just our base codex, but also our supplement, and since we are not the only 7th edition codex formatted this way, I'm willing to believe that this approach was going to become standardized before being dropped after us, and reformulated as the Skitarii/admech approach.

Furthermore our supplement is VERY 7th edition, and if the carnival of pain cost even 40 points less, tho 250-500 less would be far more effective, the development of competitive play would have been very different, we wouldn't call them decurion style detachments we'd call them Carnival style detachments.

Additionally, if you assume that gw only thinks with their bankroll due to the autotake nature of wyches in 6th and the sheer number of kits necessary to do venomspam/raiderspam our codex makes perfect sense as an msu cash grab which is exactly what early 7th was all about.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Wed Oct 07 2015, 18:45

The Carnival of Pain was definitely the fetal form of the Decurion.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Thu Oct 08 2015, 07:57

I would assume he would have the usual extremely high WS, BS and I values of most Eldar names characters. I would hope for an AP 2 close combat weapon (instant death too?) and at minimum a 4+ invun. As for the Dais? Give me a couple twin linked void lances with an option to drop a large blast at a slightly reduced strength and still maintain ap 2 with 6 or more hull points an invun and some form of way not to blow sky high the first time someone rolls a six. That's really about the minimum I would hope for. I do like the idea of a shadow field on a vehicle.

He shouldn't be a psyker but, he should add a way to manipulate reserve and other "tactical" rolls. Bonus, if he grants some sort of zoned psychic defense and stealth or shrouded to an area near the Dais.

Super Bonus: He pops squads of castigators out of a WWP when behind in victory points. This, of course will never happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Thu Oct 08 2015, 11:18

Hahahah yes. Impressive ideas, in close combat if he were a single model, I'd hope for stats around Drazhar, probably abilities to dumb down enemies, on a Dais, I can only imagine what type of weapons and uses there could be, but I'd hope for something hard to take down

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Thu Oct 08 2015, 13:01

So many ways to make Asdrubael Vect a beast.  Strolling through memory lane, I liked his always wound on a 3+ power weapon, preferred enemy everybody (he already knew everything) and the Labyrinthine Cunning trait would be a cool match.

I read that he likes to employ doppelgangers. Special rule: "The last laugh" What about if when he dies, you roll a die. On a 4+ he becomes one of the other DE characters on the table. Might encourage us to make a few more sybarites. HA! That'd be such a troll move. Thought you had slay the warlord? Nah-ah-ah Laughing !

Maybe Vect could flip the FNP table upside down for all DE units as they vie for his attention: "Withering Fancy." OR the FNP table could be randomly drawn from each turn of the game, no repeats. Haemonculi allow to select one trait from 2.

The Dais always left something to be desired. It was originally AV 14 because of it's superior nightshield and it attacked like a walker with it's slashing incubi crew. Then it became an AV 13 ravager without aerial assault. The Dais of Destruction become the black hole of list building. Points went somewhere and never came back...ever...

I quite like that previous suggestion about WWP portals. 3 of them? What if the Dais of destruction is an off the board, good old fashioned teleporter? No model required GW!
If it is a vehicle, how about giving it a beefed up fire prism type of firing mode? Triangulated lances, twin linked, D/ split fire void lances with the old aerial assault. A vehicle that would be stealth and shrouded with enhanced nightshield, too? The Vexfield!

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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Thu Oct 08 2015, 21:02

I'm worried that the Dais would be turned into a chariot. While it seems logical, the ability to fight in close combat from a transport comes at a high price: Your character has to go down with his ship. And considering that the ship in this case is a glorified Raider... Yeah, it's kind of terrifying to imagin an inevitably expensive Lord of War getting shot down by Bolters. No
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PostSubject: Re: Speculation as to how strong and effective Asdrubael Vect would be, IF he was in game   Thu Oct 08 2015, 21:38

You takes the Shadow conversion from white dwarf, and use the logical behind the reaper weapon : a Haywire weapon as big as the whole craft.

Apocalyptic - Haywires - Blasts

With some skyfire-disintegrators
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