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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Tue Oct 27 2015, 23:16

If you can't get full LoS blocked, then there's nothing you can do about it, and that's ok. The raiders all have nightshields so you'll be sitting on a 3+ cover.

I would put the grots behind your rightmost skull cover and make sure you have LOS blocked from the two left preds. Stick the incubi behind the temple of skulls. The scourges need to be blocked LOS as much as possible too, and I'd make sure they take out the rightmost pred (because I want to turbo boost the archon to that flank.
I want to split their focus and run the incubi down the other side. Also, if you give away some easier targets ie, placing one of the raiders in the open or some jetbikes in threatening positions then they may target them instead.
also, the ravager MUST be out of LOS, so sacrifice one of the raiders you don't mind jinking (usually the one you want to turbo boost - incubi or grots.
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 06:43

Sacrifice the grotesques Raider? Are you crazy?

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 09:40

One pred won't take it down with a 3+ jink. And I was more referring to 'if you have to jink with something, do it with something you're going to flat out with, not the ravager'
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 09:57

I wouldn't even start the Ravager on the table (see my earlier post). For deployment, here are my suggestions (I'm going to refer to the table based on the number of the objective on each 24"x24" 'tile').

Grots + Archon in Raider - Tile 1, behind the temple of skulls, pretty much as per the picture in Agatha's earlier post but pivoted slightly so that it's hopefully completely out of LOS.

Pink Candy Pack in Raider - Tile 1, behind the big skull

Blue Candy Pack in Raider - Tile 2, behind the big skull

The Grens, Bluegrens, and Redgrens - Tile 2, on the Skyshield. If he wants to waste an autocannon shot on a small unit of Reavers with a decent cover save then let him!

Everything else - in Deep Strike reserve.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 12:09

nexs wrote:
One pred won't take it down with a 3+ jink.  And I was more referring to 'if you have to jink with something, do it with something you're going to flat out with, not the ravager'

But if it does, you lose the game. It's a critical point of failure.

Count Adhemar wrote:
I wouldn't even start the Ravager on the table (see my earlier post). For deployment, here are my suggestions (I'm going to refer to the table based on the number of the objective on each 24"x24" 'tile').

Grots + Archon in Raider - Tile 1, behind the temple of skulls, pretty much as per the picture in Agatha's earlier post but pivoted slightly so that it's hopefully completely out of LOS.

Pink Candy Pack in Raider - Tile 1, behind the big skull

Blue Candy Pack in Raider - Tile 2, behind the big skull

The Grens, Bluegrens, and Redgrens - Tile 2, on the Skyshield. If he wants to waste an autocannon shot on a small unit of Reavers with a decent cover save then let him!

Everything else - in Deep Strike reserve.

I second this. Reserving the ravager also allows you to be more reactive with it, and potentially hit rear/side armour.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 12:15

@Mushkilla
I don't often get the luxury of LOS blocking terrain, so I'm always faced with having to jink to save my boss.
But if you manage to get first turn, you have no long range hitting without the ravager. That's my concern.
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 12:31

nexs wrote:
@Mushkilla
I don't often get the luxury of LOS blocking terrain, so I'm always faced with having to jink to save my boss.
But if you manage to get first turn, you have no long range hitting without the ravager. That's my concern.

Given that the Marine player has already deployed and has a range advantage, the only way we get first turn is if we Seize, and I don't think we should base our deployment on that chance. Basically, if we deploy the Ravager anywhere that it is range of a Predator then the Predator, and possibly several other units, are likely going to be able to fire at it first. This will either destroy the Ravager or force it to jink. Either way it is effectively out of the game for the first turn so why not deep strike it?

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 12:49

I feel like a whole turn is wasted waiting for reserves to arrive. I've had some good wins, but I'm no veteran tournament champ, so I'm not sure how good my ideas are hahah
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 13:22

I would reserve everything except 1 or 2 unit of reavers then deepstrike everything in. I would deploy those reavers right in to the back of the deployment zone so that even with movement it would be very difficult get any shots on them.

But I think Count's solution is more feasible in this game. Raiders in, rest deepstrike. Blasterborn Venom needs a place where it can shoot devastators and its occupants target one predator. Turn 2 everything moves for the attack (flat outing Raiders) if you get most of your army from reserves to the board.

@nexs You would lose that turn if you need to jink anyhow. Rather take that one set of shots before need to jink.

@'Agatha Always place your models so that you have alternative target to most of your units if it's target get killed or neutralized before it has shot. And the Same the other way around. Allways have a backup or two if you need something killed fast.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 13:30

So we roll with the idea of the count.

But didn't the predators ignore cover due to a formation? Otherwise I'm good with that set up too.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 13:34

CptMetal wrote:
But didn't the predators ignore cover due to a formation?

Not that I'm aware of. They could have tank/monster hunter but only if they are in a squadron of 3, not individual units like they are here.

@Barking Agatha - Would be good to know what Warlord Trait we have before we deploy as some of the options could change our deployment.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 14:28

Vasara wrote:
@'Agatha Always place your models so that you have alternative target to most of your units if it's target get killed or neutralized before it has shot. And the Same the other way around. Allways have a backup or two if you need something killed fast.

Just linking to an illustrated guide for what Vasara is talking about for those that need it.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 17:32

Just a question:

Wouldn't it be easier for you to stream the game on something like twitch and invite the people who want to control your minis to a chat or teamspeak?
This way you can do the whole game in 1 or 2 evenings and people have an easier time tell you where to put/move your stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Oct 28 2015, 18:39

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Just a question:

Wouldn't it be easier for you to stream the game on something like twitch and invite the people who want to control your minis to a chat or teamspeak?
This way you can do the whole game in 1 or 2 evenings and people have an easier time tell you where to put/move your stuff.

You speak of devil magics! I am ignorant of such things Smile

Okay, I had this:



But based on what you've told me I'll change it later today, and hopefully get the first turn in tomorrow!
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Thu Oct 29 2015, 01:37

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Just a question:

Wouldn't it be easier for you to stream the game on something like twitch and invite the people who want to control your minis to a chat or teamspeak?
This way you can do the whole game in 1 or 2 evenings and people have an easier time tell you where to put/move your stuff.

That's a good idea, but it might not be feasible depending on the schedules and time zones of those involved.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Oct 30 2015, 09:12

It begins!

Space Meringues First Turn:

Our warlord trait was pretty useless. It's the one where we can mess with their reserve rolls, but they didn't reserve anything. This was our final deployment:



The meringues decided not to use any doctrines yet, and just move forward with the predators and rhinos. The Captain's rhino stays where it is, the assault meringues hide behind the bastion. One squad of meringues moves into the ruin with the balcony.



The leftmost predator shoots at the Blue Candy Raider and destroys its dark lance. (Note: Remember that these are supposed to be predators with heavy bolters and autocannons. We're still using two borrowed razorbacks and an old predator without sponsons, because we still can't find them.)



The rightmost predator shoots at the Pink Candy Raider, but nothing happens! Smile The meringues in the ruined building run inside and occupy the balcony and windows.



And that was all. They have +1 point for taking Objective 5 and +2 for Supremacy. We lost one dark lance on a raider. It's the best first enemy turn I've experienced since forever!

Our turn: what do we do now? Smile

Edit: It occurs to me that it might be helpful to draw our objective cards first. I'll do that tomorrow and let you know.
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Oct 30 2015, 11:16

Shame about the warlord trait. It would definitely help to know what the tactical objective cards. Did any of your vehicles jink? It would also be helpful if you could give us an idea of distances between your units and the enemy. it can be hard to tell from the pictures and it helps to decide what we're going to be doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Oct 30 2015, 11:43

Just out of curiosity: the landing platform thing that the Reavers are on: would they have fit under it?

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Tue Nov 03 2015, 20:05

Calyptra wrote:
Just out of curiosity: the landing platform thing that the Reavers are on: would they have fit under it?

I wouldn't chance it, they might get scraped against the bottom.

Sorry for the delay, but Halloween and Dia de Muertos got in the way : )

Our three objectives are: Secure Objective 6 (66), Harness the Warp, and Big Game Hunter.

Also, our Combat Drugs are Hypex (+1 Initiative), and our Warlord Trait is kind of useless (it's the one where you can mess with their reserve rolls, but they didn't reserve anything, so...)

I meant to play the first turn today, but that's obviously not going to happen, so it's tentatively on for Thursday, if I have your instructions by then! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Nov 04 2015, 09:16

Are you playing unmodified maelstrom rules (ie that you don't automatically replace any cards that are physically impossible to achieve, such as Harness the Warp)?

Also, I don't suppose your opponent has been careless enough to leave the Rhino in tile 6 more than 3" from the objective?

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Nov 04 2015, 18:28

Count Adhemar wrote:
Are you playing unmodified maelstrom rules (ie that you don't automatically replace any cards that are physically impossible to achieve, such as Harness the Warp)?

Yes, that never occurred to us. I can replace it at the end of the turn though. I'm using the Dark Eldar deck, and it's in there, so it's probably intended that way?

Count Adhemar wrote:
Also, I don't suppose your opponent has been careless enough to leave the Rhino in tile 6 more than 3" from the objective?

Of course not Smile

By the way, we're off again for another week as he has to attend a medical gathering thing, so until next Tuesday. It's for the best, really, otherwise everyone would need to give their input today, and that doesn't seem to be happening Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Wed Nov 04 2015, 22:06

What i'd do (provided it's possible as I'm not sure which model is where relatively):

-Boost grotesque raider up to the right and in LOS of as little as possible (i'd be looking at getting it right up to the predator or rhino and out of LOS of the other 2 preds)

-Take out the devastators in the rightmost building (you want to force as little firepower to be available to shoot at the grotesque/archon). Ideally, you want only the predator to be in LOS, and you just jink the crap out of its shots.

-Try to take the right most pred, or at least shake/stun it so it's snap firing at your archon

-use splinter fire to remove models not in a transport


Q: wheres your scourges and ravager?
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Nov 06 2015, 20:43

nexs wrote:
What i'd do (provided it's possible as I'm not sure which model is where relatively):

-Boost grotesque raider up to the right and in LOS of as little as possible (i'd be looking at getting it right up to the predator or rhino and out of LOS of the other 2 preds)

-Take out the devastators in the rightmost building (you want to force as little firepower to be available to shoot at the grotesque/archon). Ideally, you want only the predator to be in LOS, and you just jink the crap out of its shots.

-Try to take the right most pred, or at least shake/stun it so it's snap firing at your archon

-use splinter fire to remove models not in a transport


Q: wheres your scourges and ravager?

Take out the devastators and rightmost predator... how?

The scourges and ravager are in reserve, as we agreed above.

Note: If no one else offers any input, I guess I'll call it off. It was... an idea. Very difficult to schedule.

It's a little disappointing. When it was about making a list, we got a dozen responses and a lively discussion. Then it was about setting up the pieces on the table, and it went down to a handful of people. And now that it's about actually moving those pieces on the table, you could cut the silence with a Citadel knife!

It's especially disappointing because I keep hearing that you can do very well with Dark Eldar in a non-tournament setting, you only need to know how to use them. Some of you win with them more often than not. I'm told that people who complain about the state of the dark eldar (like myself, sometimes) are exaggerating and wrong. Well, here's your chance to show me! Teach me how to use my dark eldar army. Teach me those clever maneouvres and radical techniques so that I can play Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Nov 06 2015, 21:30

But it's the second turn. It would help if we would know what is entering the play. And I must admit it's difficult to stay in touch and to visualise the state of the game. And I still have a life.

Anyway, I'm trying to visualise the situation and think of an idea. Give me a minute

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PostSubject: Re: Teach me the error of my ways!   Fri Nov 06 2015, 21:38

Must confess I'm a bit disappointed that several people who were happy to contribute in the list building phase haven't been willing to carry that into the game itself. I'm happy to keep going though and hopefully some others will chip in with some good advice.

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