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CanadianMecha
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PostSubject: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 01:30

Hi! I'm almost a newbie at 40k but I'have think about something that seems,
to me, pretty interesting: Sslyth inside venom...

in scouad of 3 inside a venom with splinter cannon they got 21 shots at 18 inches 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound plus they can survive if the venom blows up since they are tougher than normale DE.

the only problem I can think of is there very low moral

so I would like you guys to tell what you think about this idea Very Happy

P.S. (sorry for bad english Razz )
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 01:43

They could be okay.

If you stuck them either in a Raider or a Venom with a Covens Haemonculus, they'd be Fearless from turn 1, which would help the low leadership problem immensely. Plus, in a Raider you can give them rerolls to hit.
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CanadianMecha
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 02:11

yeah but I don't really like raider there too big and they do not have a free 5+ inv
but the hemonculus covens idea look pretty cool
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 02:23

Keep in mind that the larger profile increases your range.

Also, while the Raider cannot have a 5+ Invuln, it can have a 3+ Cover. It also has an extra hull point.

Both are good, of course, but only the Raider gives you the rerolls for the troops with the extra capacity. You can still go the Venom route, you just have to drop a Sslyth for the haemmie.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 04:17

On the rare occasion I run sslyth I do it in a raider because of the slightly increased range (the length of the raider) and the fact that raiders can take splinter racks.  It's a rare source of twin linked fire for our units.

Sadly sslyth don't synergize all that well with the rest of our army, which is kind of to be expected being an entirely seperate, outcast race.  They don't get PFP, and therefore a haemy can't buff it.  I tend to just put them in with a lhamean or medusae for leadership purposes, or an archon for his blaster and wwp potential.

One unit which does share some synergy with the sslyth is oddly the chronos.  Keeping a 125 point chronos within 6" can give those sslyth 4+ feel no pain (from turn 1).  This is pretty darn effective combined with the toughness 5 and multiple wounds sslyth already bring to the table.  If the chronos weren't incredibly slow, this might actually be more of a death star and less of an expensive backfield novelty.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Thu Sep 24 2015, 21:15

I thought this topic was gonna be something different, but I agree with whats been said so lets go 'there' instead. Heres some sslyth madness for you to consider:

2x8 sslyth, 2 lhamaeans, raider- dc, sr, ns

Back these up with say gunboat warriors, 3x12 beast packs and some grots and reavers. Then add ravagers and scourges for can-openers.. as needed. Pretty serious combat focused without the loss of anti infantry firepower. Should blow FMCs out of the sky pretty handily too.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Fri Sep 25 2015, 19:10

@Jimsolo wrote:
They could be okay.  

If you stuck them either in a Raider or a Venom with a Covens Haemonculus, they'd be Fearless from turn 1, which would help the low leadership problem immensely.  Plus, in a Raider you can give them rerolls to hit.

The thing that bugs me about Haemonculus + Sslyth is that they don't have PfP.

Haemonculi are bad enough when they get to use their one crappy support ability, so taking them with a unit that can't benefit from it just feels really wasteful.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Fri Sep 25 2015, 20:06

The Haemonculus us fearless. That's a bonus for the snake guys...
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Fri Sep 25 2015, 20:18

@CptMetal wrote:
The Haemonculus us fearless. That's a bonus for the snake guys...

For 70pts, I'd want more than Fearless.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Fri Sep 25 2015, 20:58

Lol, don't forget Fear! lol!
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sat Sep 26 2015, 02:48

Not really the place for wish-listing but I'd personally love a court of the archon/chronos mixed formation like the dark artisan.  Fill the court with SSlyth and model the chronos out to look serpentine (which isn't hard).  Add an archon for a WWP and light anti tank and now we have a versatile formation made from 2 underutilized units and a way to deliver them.

SSlyth would be fearless as long as the chronos was alive, even if the archon split off.  You'd also probably need to give the chronos fleet to keep from slowing down the snakes.  This formation would be pretty vicious vs infantry at range, and most everything in melee.  Also it would be roughly as durable as a unit of grotesques (1 less wound per model but 5+ armor on sslyth and 4+ FNP on everything).

Something else to stick in the back of my pointless fandex I guess.  It's not like GW has ever revived flawed codices with supplemental formations before tongue
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sat Sep 26 2015, 10:02

@Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, don't forget Fear! lol!

Of course! The final piece! cheers

@stilgar27 wrote:
Not really the place for wish-listing but I'd personally love a court of the archon/chronos mixed formation like the dark artisan.  Fill the court with SSlyth and model the chronos out to look serpentine (which isn't hard).  Add an archon for a WWP and light anti tank and now we have a versatile formation made from 2 underutilized units and a way to deliver them.

SSlyth would be fearless as long as the chronos was alive, even if the archon split off.  You'd also probably need to give the chronos fleet to keep from slowing down the snakes.  This formation would be pretty vicious vs infantry at range, and most everything in melee.  Also it would be roughly as durable as a unit of grotesques (1 less wound per model but 5+ armor on sslyth and 4+ FNP on everything).

Something else to stick in the back of my pointless fandex I guess.  It's not like GW has ever revived flawed codices with supplemental formations before tongue

Do you have any fluff in mind for that formation?
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sat Sep 26 2015, 13:35

The fluff could be as simple as the kabal renting a chronos for a weekend or a haemoncolous experimenting on a sslyth pack leader, but mine would probably go a little more like this.

Formation - Broken Fang

"Many Archon's acquire their retinue of SSlyth bodyguards at as young an age as possible - often taking them on as hatchlings, to ensure maximum loyalty.  This presents a problem for usurpers, as unseating an archon will likely mean further weakening the kabal by losing these loyal and effective troops.

The Dark Kin solution is of course - to lobotomize the ousted Archon and turn his body into a hulking weapons, better known as a chronos.  This allows the kabal to continue on largely unchanged with a new leader, while simultaneously punishing the former leader for his failures.

This process actually seems to bolster the effectiveness of a Kabal's sslyth mercenaries, as their modified leader is now a much more formidable and inspiring presence on the battlefield."

Formation :

1 Chronos Pain Engine

1-12 Sslyth Mercenaries

Restrictions : None

Special Rules :

Fleet. (Chronos Only)

Familiar Scent - All units in this formation are fielded as a single court of the archon unit.  As such they may be joined by additional characters, but may never use an independent character's leadership even if the chronos is killed.  Additionally, while the chronos is alive, his sslyth retinue may not embark buildings or transports.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 12:44

A sslyth bomb can be an obj grabbing machine, especially in maelstrom, and win you games.

Just WWP in a raider with archon, some sslyth + a medusa or 2 (for Ld and cool mind flamers) with part of the hull within 3" of an obj you need in opponents deployment zone.

Shoot the enemy backfield holding unit off said obj and its all yours.

They are effective at scoring "kill unit" objs from shooting and/or close combat.

Also great for scoring linebreaker and all those maelstrom cards that want you in the enemy dep zone or holding multiple obj.

What's even better is that now your opponent has to choose between pressing on with his plan or diverting units to take out this tough unit that is shredding his backfield. Either way you win!Cool  

I find the more tough choices you force your opponent to make the more often he makes mistakes you can take advantage of.  Wink
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 13:07

But why take Sslyth at all? Medusa only could do that too..
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 20:58

Sslyth are tanker than Medusa and can take more return fire. Plus, firing from a raider with splinter racks they can drop a solid amount of splinter fire and with strength 5 and a decent amount of attacks they could do well in CC.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 21:58

But with enough Medusa, nothing is able to shoot back.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 22:05

@Painjunky wrote:
A sslyth bomb can be an obj grabbing machine, especially in maelstrom, and win you games.

Just WWP in a raider with archon, some sslyth + a medusa or 2 (for Ld and cool mind flamers) with part of the hull within 3" of an obj you need in opponents deployment zone.

Shoot the enemy backfield holding unit off said obj and its all yours.

They are effective at scoring "kill unit" objs from shooting and/or close combat.

Also great for scoring linebreaker and all those maelstrom cards that want you in the enemy dep zone or holding multiple obj.

What's even better is that now your opponent has to choose between pressing on with his plan or diverting units to take out this tough unit that is shredding his backfield. Either way you win!Cool  

I find the more tough choices you force your opponent to make the more often he makes mistakes you can take advantage of.  Wink

Do you find that your opponent deploys really weak units to guard backfield objectives? When my opponents leave units on their back field, they're either in vehicles or are vehicles. Neutral

@lament.config wrote:
Sslyth are tanker than Medusa and can take more return fire. Plus, firing from a raider with splinter racks they can drop a solid amount of splinter fire and with strength 5 and a decent amount of attacks they could do well in CC.

Thing is, if you have enough Sslyth for Splinter Racks to be a worthwhile investment, then you're using too many Sslyth. Razz

Out of interest though, how would you kit out the Archon for this unit?

@CptMetal wrote:
But with enough Medusa, nothing is able to shoot back.

Well, maybe nothing from the unit you shot at, but I'm going to go out on a limb and presume there are other units on the board. Wink
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 22:08

Because snake people? I'd rather have an Archon sitting in a group of high toughness multiple wound models but, dropping in with a webway portal the Medusa probably do more damage. I think sslyth overall are fun choice in a friendly game. Still, 4 to 8 sslyth are going to harder to knock off an objective and could cause a ruckus in the back field.
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 22:10

Medusae can be shot down quite easily, they are not tough enough to hang around in the enemy dep zone scoring those objs I mentioned.

They cant do CC.

As they are squishy they don't require ur opponent to redirect multiple units (or a single powerful expensive unit ie deathstar) to get rid of them. They don't force tough decisions.

@ Shredder. Yes mostly either small units or vehicles. Sslyth are good vs vehicles in CC but ideally Id like to open those cans with lances and haywire blasters.

@ lament.config. Agreed. I don't use sslyth often but when using them as a tough back field threat I am happy with them.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Sun Sep 27 2015, 22:22

They are deadly in overwatch and yes, there are other enemy units. But they can "delete" one enemy unit per turn. Even more if they attack. Using Raider jink save, they are tough enough. And you don't need 8 or 9. 3-4 are enough to kill enemy units and scare your opponent to react.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Mon Sep 28 2015, 04:17

I regularly use a unit of 5 sslyth and a medusae in a riader with splinter racks.
It may be overkill, or too expensive for what it brings, but it holds a few benefits that other units don't;
1. A multipurpose unit that can be a good meatshield for your leader, but is enough of a threat on its own to do well without your leader
2. Has high wound output potential in both shooting and combat. Many opponents don't know just how many attacks the sslyth put out.
3. I prefer the medusae over Llhamaean because an ap3 flamer is a scary thing to charge into, but has the same LD
4. T5, FNP from turn 1 is great! And the raider is a much better protective layer than a venom! You can buy nightshields and upgrade to splinter racks. But that's my personal preference
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Mon Sep 28 2015, 09:41

3-4 medusae in a raider are not tough, not even when jinking.

They will delete a unit on arrival then probably be deleted in return.

A unit of say... 5 sslyth + 2 medusae in a raider can mess up a unit on arrival then survive to cause merry hell in the opponents backfield. Cool

@ nexs. Agreed.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Mon Sep 28 2015, 11:23

But you'd draw his attention and he will be desperate to delete the unit. If he fails, what can happen, you can go on. And your other units can attacked nearly unharmed.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth madness   Mon Sep 28 2015, 12:16

@Painjunky wrote:

A unit of say... 5 sslyth + 2 medusae in a raider can mess up a unit on arrival then survive to cause merry hell in the opponents backfield. Cool

That's getting pretty expensive though. I mean, we're now talking 175pts of Court plus 55 (minimum) for the Raider, and then at least another 95 for an Archon with a WWP - probably 110+ as you'll most likely want to give him a blaster at least.

Assuming a Blaster, that's 340pts before any other stuff (splinter racks, other archon wargear etc.), and might even include your warlord.

That's a hell of a lot for such a specific mission, and at this point your opponent is very much justified in sending a unit or two back to kill it.

Also, I'd like to bring up, once again, that this is a 340pt unit that is outfoxed by a Rhino. Neutral
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