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 Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics

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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:01 pm

@Darkgreen Pirate wrote:
If you are playing ITC the lhamean cant hurt it. In the ITC FAQ if the Str of an instant death attack isn't high enough to normally wound the Gargantuan creature it is unaffected and un wounded. So at Str3 vs T8, youre sadly out of luck.

does that affect our S1 splinters too ?
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:38 pm

You guys are over thinking this. The faq is to address ID. Poison allows for ID at any strength, then apply the gmc rules. Or in other words the rules for poison are the "specifies otherwise".
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:36 am

So it makes those big things immune to instant death? Why?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:08 am

@Brom wrote:
You guys are over thinking this. The faq is to address ID. Poison allows for ID at any strength, then apply the gmc rules. Or in other words the rules for poison are the "specifies otherwise".

I agree. The Poison rule specifically tells us that the attack is able to wound the target:

Quote :
if a model makes a shooting attack with a weapon that has the Poisoned special rule, it always wounds on a fixed number

Therefore this meets the criteria for ID to trigger on a 6, even under ITC rules.

Quote :
Unless specified otherwise, attacks that cause Instant Death on a To Wound roll of 6 still need to be able to wound the target model for Instant Death to be inflicted (e.g. a S4 attack cannot hurt a T8 model even if the attack causes Instant Death on a 6).

The attack still needs to be able to wound the target. Poisoned attacks are always able to wound the target. Job done.

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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:44 pm

So I either DO get ID OR I get D3 wounds......... I am fine with the D3 wounds for the sake of the size of the creature... 1 little Lhamie ID-ing a WK or other GC does seem a bit crazy BUT would be a hilarious thing.......and evil...... of course then Lhamies would get dropped from the codex or the ID rule would be dropped.. but hey ,just playing the way the rules say.... I did email frontline games on this... I am awaiting a reply....
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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:46 pm

ALSO, i LIKE the way you distilled it for me/us count... this will be my arguement..... hey people abuse the FNP all day long in games.. they say they are just playing according to the rules of FNP....
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:08 pm

@Archon Rievect wrote:
So I either DO get ID OR I get D3 wounds......... I am fine with the D3 wounds for the sake of the size of the creature... 1 little Lhamie ID-ing a WK or other GC does seem a bit crazy BUT would be a hilarious thing.......and evil...... of course then Lhamies would get dropped from the codex or the ID rule would be dropped.. but hey ,just playing the way the rules say.... I did email frontline games on this... I am awaiting a reply....
ID becomes d3 wounds instead according to GMC rules. Its already pretty cut and dry with no confliction. If the dudes your playing with are messing it up they need to following the logical order of the applicable rules + ITC FAQ..

FAQ- ID needs to be able to wound-> poison always wounds on set number (no confliction.. criteria met)-> GMC rules say poison instead wounds on 6-> replacement effect of GMC ID instead treated as d3 wounds. All paraphrased of course.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:37 pm

I see where you're coming from, Count. That makes sense.

@Archon Rievect wrote:
ALSO, i LIKE the way you distilled it for me/us count... this will be my arguement..... hey people abuse the FNP all day long in games.. they say they are just playing according to the rules of FNP....

How are people 'abusing' FNP? The only way I ever knew to abuse that was DE specific, and then they FAQed it away from us...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:49 pm

@Jimsolo wrote:
I see where you're coming from, Count.  That makes sense.

@Archon Rievect wrote:
ALSO, i LIKE the way you distilled it for me/us count... this will be my arguement..... hey people abuse the FNP all day long in games.. they say they are just playing according to the rules of FNP....

How are people 'abusing' FNP?  The only way I ever knew to abuse that was DE specific, and then they FAQed it away from us...

I suspect this is probably the 1+ FNP thing that Iron Hands can achieve (with a huge points outlay and at least 3 random rolls going their way).

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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:14 am

That and well at less for a time people were saying they could take fnp against stuff that would kill them outright,something to do with the way it was written.. So I may be in error ...but do remember shenanigans on rolls,like you nail guy with Las, wound,they try to pull a fnp ....
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:46 am

I assume you mean lascannon (since virtually everything can FNP a lasgun). Even then, anything T5 or better can still get their FNP. (Centurions, bikes, someone with a boosted Toughness from a psyker power...)

If they weren't allowed to take a FNP roll and still took one, that isn't so much abusing the rules as it is outright cheating. That's not really a rules issue as much as it is a people problem.
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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:38 am

I see your angle count, but I see it differently.

The ITC Ruling refers to the strength of the attack being able to wound in order to facilitate the ID effect-which gargantuans in this case are partially immune to, taking d3 wounds instead of 1.

Strictly speaking poison attacks are either Str 1 or Str user for CC weapons. The question becomes do all our gribblies count as able to wound automatically ( *cough cough* bladestorm, Gauss, so unfair lol) or do they still under this ruling require a high enough Strength to also be able to damage the creature without the ID effect? As it references Strength specifically, I would tend to err on the side of no, we don't get ID, unless its on Grotesques or a similar Str5+ creature.

Ultimately ask your TO. Very Happy

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:03 am

@Darkgreen Pirate wrote:
I see your angle count, but I see it differently.

The ITC Ruling refers to the strength of the attack being able to wound in order to facilitate the ID effect-which gargantuans in this case are partially immune to, taking d3 wounds instead of 1.

It makes mention of Strength only as an example though. The actual rule is that "Unless specified otherwise, attacks that cause Instant Death on a To Wound roll of 6 still need to be able to wound the target model for Instant Death to be inflicted". Poison can wound any non-vehicle target.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:19 am

They did it to protect wraith Knights against wraith guards? Hilarious!
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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Facing a Eldar WK/LOW/D----need a bit of clarification on some specs..maybe tactics   Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:48 am

well my game came to naught... real life job screwed me over ,so rescheduling for next week, will be trying to play against eldar and either against nids or Iron hands.........
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