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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 13:07

Kin implies relation, not self.

The only factions we Commorites are kin to are Craftworlders, Exodites, Corsairs (ish), and Harlequins, all of which are functionally Codex: Eldar factions (or not a faction). When we refer to ourselves as the "Dark Kin" others take that as license to do so in kind, and this serves to dilute our individual identity as a separate faction and solidly binds us to our identity as the 'evil eldar cousins' and makes our identity a mere supplement to the CWE one, which I think is a part of why we get the shaft in favour of the Craftworlders so frequently.

I realize I'm being pedantic here, but about I think this is something that is worth being pedantic about.

Tl;Dr: Can we please stop calling ourselves the 'dark kin' as it reinforces the world view that we are an afterthought to the Craftworlders.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 13:25

Each Dark Eldar would be kin to the next, being pedantic.
Each human would be kin to the next human going back far enough, I suppose. It depends on the application of "kin". Are we talking as a whole race, or as an individual eldar? The answer lies in the opinion of anyone using the term "kin" at any point in time, no?

The bag of worms opens further still.
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Nariaklizhar
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 13:30

We ARE a supplement to our Craftworld Cousins though. We would not exist if the Eldar race never existed. And I don't believe our identity is diluted because of it at all. In fact, I think it improves it, makes us more complex. I always see Craftworld Eldar as just there. Dark Eldar on the other hand exist out of a disturbing hatred towards their cousins. Our entire being as a race is to survive off of the pain and agony of others with no regard to any other race in the 40k universe. If the world views us as an after though to Eldar, well, theyre wrong
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 13:46

Sure, nexs, except then the token of dark wouldn't be necessary, and it's inclusion causes the exact same problem.

Nariaklizhar, except we're not, and we haven't been since at least 5th edition, and arguably since the grand reset with third edition. We don't exist because we hate our cousins. We exist because we are almost unchanged from before the fall. You can see the Craftworlders as just there, but that's both inaccurate in the gamers reality, and within the setting of 40k. In 40k they exist as counterpart to us, here we exist as web way portal caddies for them. How we talk about ourselves, and from there how others talk about us is part and parcel of why that is the case.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 14:05

In point of fact, the Dark Eldar are the real Eldar. (This is why Thor consistently refers to them as the True Kin, a habit I've started picking up since he explained his reasons.) It is Craftworld Eldar who are an offshoot of Commorragh Eldar, not the other way around.

40k is a human-centric game, and the Craftworld Eldar seem (to human perceptions) to be the more populous Eldar type, which is why the game refers to them the way it does.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 14:30

Absolutely on all points. That said can you refer me to some mon'keigh, or otherwise Non-eldar texts that refer to us as the dark kin in how they address us? Otherwise as far as I can tell this usage is explicitly a gamer created reference, and can be rejected as freely as it was adopted.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 20:26

Lets not forget that we're several thousand years on since the break in the species. The Fall was about M30, so we're 11,000 years on. I think thats enough to consider them kin rather than siblings.
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 22:13

We are the true kin, not the dark kin. So I don't get the question.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 22:27

Well, we can be both True AND Dark.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 22:35

No Vect called us the dark kin first. And while Vect is the all mighty archon, he's still just an Archon and definitely not my boss.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Thu Sep 17 2015, 22:41

@CptMetal wrote:
No Vect called us the dark kin first. And while Vect is the all mighty archon, he's still just an Archon and definitely not my boss.

Please report to the nearest torture chamber. Thank you for your cooperation.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Fri Sep 18 2015, 01:09

My Kabal is Web way based. Thank you.

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+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
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Rasp
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Fri Sep 18 2015, 02:04

Putting any adjective in front of our name shows that we are the lesser thought of. That's how it is. The fact that we have to differentiate ourselves from the standard is proof that we are the "lesser" or a variant. Ork, savage Ork, Goblin, Night Goblin, Elf, Dark Elf, Eldar, Dark Eldar. Anytime that someone thumps their chest and proclaims themselves to be a True "blank" they are usually delusional.

Not in the fluff. I agree completely that we are the base model eldar. Those others guys went and formed a some weird cult post fall. Smile

But in this world, we are definitely the off brand Eldar. Which, I like.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Fri Sep 18 2015, 03:24

@Jimsolo wrote:
In point of fact, the Dark Eldar are the real Eldar.  (This is why Thor consistently refers to them as the True Kin, a habit I've started picking up since he explained his reasons.) It is Craftworld Eldar who are an offshoot of Commorragh Eldar, not the other way around.
Twisted Evil

@Squidmaster wrote:
Well, we can be both True AND Dark.
Indeed.
We are the OG Eldar and we identify as Dark.

@Rasp wrote:
Putting any adjective in front of our name shows that we are the lesser thought of. That's how it is. The fact that we have to differentiate ourselves from the  standard is proof that we are the "lesser" or a variant.
The original line was 'Craftworld Eldar' and the new line has also made that distinction. There is now, officially, no 'Eldar' army faction anymore.

As far as 'Dark Kin' in fluff, I am pretty sure there isn't. I have only ever seen that particular phrase used by people online, generally in reference to fellow players. Since its rough translation would be something like 'Family of Darkness' I am not actually against it, nor do I consider it a diminishment of either the faction nor the player base. The Dark Eldar do self-identify as 'Dark Eldar' so I think it is fine to acknowledge that.

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Rasp
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Fri Sep 18 2015, 05:38

That's true Thor, there is no "Eldar" faction officially. I'm speaking of players. If you say Eldar, the craft world variety is what is meant. They are the default Eldar, in most people's brains.

Again, I am referring to real world not game world. I fully support that we are the True Kin!
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Sat Sep 19 2015, 09:58

I'm with thor here, kin is short for kindred, which can also mean child by birth.  I've always considered it to mean Child or Born of the Dark(ness).  This is admittedly a bit sloppy, but by no means the worst naming job geedubs has ever managed.

As for playing second fiddle?  I still have some of my old metal eldar from 90-96, and even though I don't play them much they'll always be "the eldar" to me.  Sadly the dark eldar always seemed to be just an afterthought; pretty much neglected since birth (probably because they were stupid looking), up until 5th edition anyway.
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Rathian
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PostSubject: Re: "Dark Kin"   Mon Sep 21 2015, 19:26

@CptMetal wrote:
No Vect called us the dark kin first. And while Vect is the all mighty archon, he's still just an Archon and definitely not my boss.
Brave! *stands a bit further away from CptMetal*

Although I agree, we are the True Eldar, our poor cousins on the Craftworlds are mere reflections of what they could be if they embraced all the richness of the Eldar soul.

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