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 Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Fri Sep 04 2015, 20:18

Greetings Dark City,
Had a game against CSM recently, and guy had two drakes. I know the days of Vector striking and roasting the disrmbarking infantry are gone, but I have a question regarding LoS and torrent rule-

If a target is outside of the 45 degree weapon arc, can it be targeted by the baleflamer (which I guess technically it can't "see")

Example - there is a venom off to the left of the 'drake, outside of the 45 degree arc. The 'drake player places little end of template closer to the body in the 45 degree arc, the template is then angled to the left to hit the venom. Legit or not?

I tried reading up on it, but most online discussions about just decend into cries of "nerf", "neckbeard", "OP" and CSM players crying.

Let me know what you think. Cheers
(I'd add a pic to explain better but I'm on a train goin to work. I'll add a visual aid if that'll help later)
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Fri Sep 04 2015, 20:33

As far as I know: no. He can't do that. But I can't point you to the section in the book.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Fri Sep 04 2015, 22:31

He can do that but he may not assign wounds to models outside his fire arc.
Which makes the drake atm rather pointless as it is way too easy to evade the torrent
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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Sat Sep 05 2015, 07:38

So, just to confirm my understanding-
As long as template starts inside the 45 degree arc, all hits are good.
However only units inside the 45 degree arc can actually die?

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Sat Sep 05 2015, 08:57

Yep. Standard LoS rules. You cant assign wounds to models outside of LoS or range unless stated otherwise (Barrage for example). Pretty crappy with only 45°
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Sat Sep 05 2015, 09:18

One way or another, he can not TARGET a unit outside his fire arc. His fire arc determines his line of sight, and if you're outside of it you can not be targetted with a shooting attack, so the flamer can not be used to target you.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Sat Sep 05 2015, 15:37

Actually, he can hit any unit the template can hit, I believe.

He can only allocate wounds to models within his fire arc, though.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Tue Sep 22 2015, 15:46

@Jimsolo wrote:
Actually, he can hit any unit the template can hit, I believe.

He can only allocate wounds to models within his fire arc, though.

Where are people getting this from please? References required Smile
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Tue Sep 22 2015, 16:19

@Hellstrom wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Actually, he can hit any unit the template can hit, I believe.

He can only allocate wounds to models within his fire arc, though.

Where are people getting this from please?  References required Smile

Hope this helps

Template Weapons wrote:
Wounds inflicted by template weapons are allocated following the normal rules.

Torrent wrote:
A weapon with this special rule is treated like any other Template weapon

Vehicles and Measuring Distances wrote:
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon, whilst line of sight is determined from the weapon’s mounting point and along its barrel

Codex CSM FAQ wrote:
Q: How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Heldrake's ranged weapon? (pg52)
A: Treat the Heldrake's ranged weapon as a hull mounted weapon, measuring all ranges and line of sight from the barrel of the gun.

Vehicle Weapons and Line of Sight wrote:
Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons can swivel horizontally up to 45º.

Allocate Wounds, Out of Sight wrote:
If none of the firing models can draw a line of sight to a particular model in the target unit, then Wounds cannot be allocated to it, and must instead be allocated to the nearest visible model in the target unit. If there are no visible models in the target unit, all remaining Wounds in the pool are lost.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Tue Sep 22 2015, 17:07

Potentially the stupidest rule in the entirety of 40k, since wounding people you can't see is literally the purpose of flame throwing weapons, but it is what it is.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Tue Sep 22 2015, 17:38

It helps a LOT. Thank you very much.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Heldrake Baleflamer and LoS/Torrent   Sat Sep 26 2015, 21:37

Just to further clarify that 45 degree arc is actually 22.5 degrees to each side. Or i.e. almost nothing.
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