HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 True value of wracks

Go down 
AuthorMessage
RCZ
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 119
Join date : 2015-08-04
Location : ITALY, no ireland, WTF.

PostSubject: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 09:28

I've used 2x 5men wracks troop as described in "scalpel squadron". I've found them not very useful.

I was deploying 5 men of which one with that bonespike rifle. In one game they managed to do nothing (i mean...nothing. Failed to shoot, and failed to charge, and then failed to survive). In the others, they are quite... wandering around, no more.

What is their best use and/or setup?

Some strategical advice?
Back to top Go down
Sigmaril
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-11-28

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 10:32

I don't see any real use for them anywhere except as the Scalpel Squadron, as you also mention. Here, they are the required tax to get what you really want: Two turn 1 deep-striking Venoms, allowing you the option to start your entire army in Reserves (null deployment). Should there be a fragile enemy on the table, these venoms may even get additional VPs from First Blood, but it's the Null Deployment that is the real prize.

The Wracks themselves I usually run as cheap as possible, because they're frankly quite bad. I've tried them with Ossefactors, but they rarely do anything at all. I've had some measure of success running them with 2 Liquifier Guns in each unit, but this turns them suddenly quite expensive.
Back to top Go down
Jimsolo
Dracon
avatar

Posts : 3065
Join date : 2013-10-31
Location : Illinois

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 13:26

The Null Deploy is their big asset, followed by their Venoms, followed lastly by the wracks and their ability to jump out late game to grab an objective or mop up a wounded enemy.
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2968
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 17:09

I've tried hard to get Wracks to work, but they're just so bloody awful. They have one good (but expensive) gun, and for every 1 guy with that gun, you've got 4 guys without so much as a pistol. Anyone afraid of melee units with 4+ poison, no AP and which don't even get rerolls against guardsmen? Anyone? Didn't think so. Oh, and they have neither high initiative nor good survivability. Oh, and if your enemy happens to be in an AV10 vehicle, you might as well have bought a unit of cabbages.

@Jimsolo wrote:
The Null Deploy is their big asset,  followed by their Venoms, followed lastly by the wracks and their ability to jump out late game to grab an objective or mop up a wounded enemy.

This.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 735
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 18:47

I must be alone here, because to me Wracks fulfill a very vital role in my armies.

I use them as objective markers.

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
Brom
Wych


Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 18:56

You can use them to fight your friends wych army..
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2968
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 19:27

@Skulnbonz wrote:
I must be alone here, because to me Wracks fulfill a very vital role in my armies.

I use them as objective markers.

lol!
Back to top Go down
Nariaklizhar
Sybarite


Posts : 368
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Tue Sep 01 2015, 21:46

Yeah, I have found they fulfill one major role for me: Bits for conversions. I have made some pretty cool Sslyth from wracks
Back to top Go down
Scrz
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 348
Join date : 2015-01-23

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Wed Sep 02 2015, 07:57

I tend to think of them as pink orcs, and use them accordingly. That is to say, go big or go home.
10 or 20 deepstriking in raiders or WWP behind enemy lines or wherever they are needed and distract shooty units. They won't kill much but they will keep those guys from shooting for a while. Always taken from the coven supplement or with a coven haemy to make them not run away.

Obviously this only works against armies that have shooty units, so in a TAC list, they are not very flexible. Obedien peon that I am, I play the way GW wants me to play, with lists made after you know what your opponent will be, so I get to use them occationaly. They even won me a game once by delaying a tac squad heading for an objective for a round. But I have seen them lose to firewarriors in CC as well so...
Back to top Go down
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
avatar

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Wed Sep 02 2015, 08:32

My Wracks guard Mucolid spores.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
acolyte
Slave
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-08-19

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Wed Sep 02 2015, 20:31

I've used the scalpel squad as a counter to the skyhammer lists pretty effectively. also helps against knights and anything else that can out range and pop you on turn 1.

the value is in the tactical flexibility. talos and even a dark artisan gets mauled by a grav and melta drop pod combo. The scalpel has a 50% chance of avoiding the T1 alpha strike and allowing the reserves to at least get their shots off when they arrive.

so while 100 points of fearless wracks seems pointess, a dead 125 point talos seems just as worthless if turn one survival is the goal. admittedly my lists are all glass cannon builds so I rely on all my units getting to shoot and eliminate targets the turn they arrive so I put a lot of value on just surviving turn 1. no matter what, it limits the opponent to 1 turn of shooting before reserves arrive instead of 2.

The ossefactor and venom DS on turn 1 against unprepared Nids is also great fun. AP 2 fleshbane is basically a Str 9 AP2 gun against them for 15 points.
Back to top Go down
sweetbacon
Sybarite


Posts : 371
Join date : 2014-02-09

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Wed Sep 02 2015, 22:38

The first thing Wracks do when they wake up in the morning is thank whatever dark deity they worship that Wyches and Hellions exist.

Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 903
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Wed Sep 02 2015, 23:00

The sad thing about wrack is they chose to be a bad unit.

...Unless they had bad grades and got rejeted by the kabalite akademy and the scourge school. At least, they didn't have to go to wyches worldcircus.
Back to top Go down
Brom
Wych


Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 00:39

I suppose there's some value in the osse's vs GMCs too. I still think theres better alternatives for countering alpha strikes then scalpel squadron but if your sold on fielding wracks for the models or whatever reason then the squadron is probably the best way to do it. D3 vp can randomly win games too.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7221
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 07:04

The true value of Wracks is that they're Troop choices, with a small enough squad size to fit into Venoms with supporting characters and have access to cheap and effective weaponry (ie, Liquifiers).

Oh wait...

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Scrz
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 348
Join date : 2015-01-23

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 09:36

If wracks had a min squad size of 4 and was unlocked by a Haemonculus as a FOC slot-free unit like the court, would they be tempting to bring?
Back to top Go down
The Shredder
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2968
Join date : 2013-04-11

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 11:08

@Scrz wrote:
If wracks had a min squad size of 4 and was unlocked by a Haemonculus as a FOC slot-free unit like the court, would they be tempting to bring?

Not in the slightest. Here's why:

1) Haemonculi are bad, and non-coven Haemonculi are abysmal. So, I'm not exactly keen to take them at the best of times.

2) Our Elite slot has little competition. There are Grots, which you can get 2 squads of by taking the Grotesquerie (much better ones at that). There are Incubi (how many squads f these do you need?). There are Trueborn (nope), Mandrakes (hah!) and Bloodbrides (ahem).

My point is, there's virtually never going to be a pressing need to make our Elite slotless because it's just not a contested slot.

3) Even if it was a contested slot, we already have 3 different formations that basically let us take as many Wracks as we want, on demand.

4) What made Wracks useful in 5th wasn't that they didn't take up an Elite slot - it was that they were cheap troops.

5) It wouldn't solve any of their real problems. You've still got an Elite unit with the special weapon capacity of a troop unit. You've still got 2 garbage ranged weapons (and their only good weapon still costs 50% too much), no pistols, and pitiful melee ability on what is supposed to be a predominantly melee unit. And, even if the minimum squad size is 4, you still need a 5th to take their only good weapon - which basically puts you back to square 1.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 735
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 12:56

@acolyte wrote:
I've used the scalpel squad as a counter to the skyhammer lists pretty effectively.  
Against any opponent with any skill, they will choose the skyhammer to come in turn 2 as soon as they see the scalpel squadron.
It's not a counter to the skyhammer, it's a buffet line.

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
Sigmaril
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 341
Join date : 2014-11-28

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 13:24

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@acolyte wrote:
I've used the scalpel squad as a counter to the skyhammer lists pretty effectively.    
Against any opponent with any skill, they will choose the skyhammer to come in turn 2 as soon as they see the scalpel squadron.
It's not a counter to the skyhammer, it's a buffet line.
The Skyhammer won't always get to pick turn, though...
Back to top Go down
acolyte
Slave
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-08-19

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 17:22

The point is to only allow one turn of shooting by the skyhammer . You also can dictate where the hammer falls and spread it out . The drop pods of grav and melta want to take out your power units , not wracks. It's not a perfect counter but it does allow me to get the drop pods to fall spread out and away from objectives. Two venoms is a pretty tiny buffet when two squads of medusa arrive the next turn and melt full units of marines off the board.

And this is only 50% of the time, the other 50 it works very well.

What do you leave for turn one buffet that will take two turns of shooting? I've used two talos and a cronos, dark artisan, reavers, and other options . So far this has been the most disruptive to enemy strategy for me but I'd like to hear how you do it.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 735
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 17:45

Sorry, but the Skyhammer gets to choose weather it comes in turn 1 or 2. If you go null deploy, they choose turn 2. It does not matter any more if they go first or second, the hammer will drop in and... well... do what hammers do!

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
acolyte
Slave
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-08-19

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 18:35

Yes the hammer will fall that much is assured . But what do you let it hit and where? I like my deepstrike in their deployment zone or mid field and away from objectives . My goal is to get the force separated and at range so I can make all the scary grav plas melta useless and out of my deployment zone to make the ITC maelstrom points harder to get. Not impossible but harder, just give your opponent the opportunity to make a mistake.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 735
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 19:22

Of course board control is great against skyhammer. I used that exact tactic here: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12655-dark-eldar-versus-the-universe-at-the-atc-tournament (game 3 about halfway down) but if you are null deploying, you are not controlling anything. You have to sucker him into thinking that you are going to deploy everything, so he claims first turn, and then just null deploy, or have him claim second and you deploy everything.
Pretty much, in this case, the best bet is to have him deploy first, so you can counterdeploy against the skyhammer.

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
Wolfsark
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 40
Join date : 2015-01-13

PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   Thu Sep 03 2015, 21:51

I bought two squads of Wracks when the Haemonculus Coven book came out thinking the Scalpel Squadron was the coolest thing in the world. After using it a few times, I realized how mediocre it was. I think we all know this at this point. However, since I'm starting dark eldar from scratch, I have to use pretty much every model I own in every game to get enough points to play with people at my local store (they prefer 1850 - 2000 point games). I currently don't own any incubi, wychs, grotesques so I've made a squad of 9 wracks that go with my Succubus in a raider. I have one upgraded to an acothyst to accept challenges where the opponent would beat my Succubus (anything with 3 or more wounds or strength 6+) and one upgraded with an ossefactor. This unit is also mediocre just like the scalpel squadron. I can't tell you how many times they have been wiped out by squads with higher initiative, raider explodes and they all get shot to death or run away from combat or get swept (they are not part of the supplement in this configuration). I'm in the process of converting some grotesques to replace them but for now I have to use them.

However, there was one situation that occurred last weekend where the wracks were the perfect answer. I was playing against my friend who normally plays Grey Knights but has started collecting Cult Mechanicus. He decided to ally in a Dominus, a squad of Robots and a few Kataphron Destroyers. I knew he would try to advance on me as soon as possible with his Dreadknight and terminators so I positioned all my shooting units in anticipation. The Destroyers were a big concern for me. I couldn't let them shoot at me the entire game so I had to tie them up in close combat. Through some careful maneuvers (and a little bit of luck) I was able to get my raider close enough to the Destroyers to get the wracks into close combat. It ended up being a dream situation for the wracks. The plasma cannons on the destroyers cannot fire overwatch and the grav cannons only wound them on 6s (6+ save FTW!) Destroyers are WS3, INI 3, T5 and have a 4+ save. They were striking first with 20+ poison attacks against T5 and a sub par save so they took those guys out quick.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: True value of wracks   

Back to top Go down
 
True value of wracks
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: