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 Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 15:06

When you use Grotesques in a Raider, do you start them on the field or do you reserve them?

If the latter, do you have them deep-strike (possibly with WWP), or come on from the table edge and flat-out?

Does it make any difference if they're Coven grotesques?
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 15:16

Always start on the board, sometimes embarked sometimes not situation dependent. In some instances when I know my opponent is coming to me and/or looking to alpha strike I may reserve their ride.

Coven makes a huge difference, like night or day although I don't always field them from the coven book I always want to. The latest experiments rule is amazing. Get T6 and watch them tank everything in conjunction with a shadow field. Even fleet and shred are amazing. Shred flesh gauntlets can even beat down GMCs that underestimated them especially with zealot.
But the lynchpin is the coven PFP chart. Fearless is essential.I've ran into awkard stuff like fething nemesor choosing 'intimidating presence' cmd trait forcing lowest Ld in the unit in a 24" bubble which obviously just destroys them.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 15:27

2x3 Grots (Formation) in Raiders with Aethersails always in reserve (some exceptions exist).
Most of the time I just boost in.
I don't want them on the table turn 1 as Fearless has not kicked in yet, it is more units to hide and with a bit of bad luck they can get stranded turn 1 and have to run over the battlefield making them useless.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 15:28

I will usually start them on the board.
Usually, I keep a lot of stuff back in Resevres for Deep Strimking or Outflanking, so I need something tough on the board for turn one and two to survive until the rest of my army can make its entrance. Grotesques are perfect for that, and being in the Raider give them slight more survivability.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 15:34

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
2x3 Grots (Formation) in Raiders with Aethersails always in reserve (some exceptions exist).
Most of the time I just boost in.
I don't want them on the table turn 1 as Fearless has not kicked in yet, it is more units to hide and with a bit of bad luck they can get stranded turn 1 and have to run over the battlefield making them useless.

Out of interest, where do you put the Haemonculus from that formation?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 16:22

Depends. Sometimes with one of the Grot units, sometimes with another unit (spreads that -1 Ld from this detachment further).
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 16:29

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Depends. Sometimes with one of the Grot units, sometimes with another unit (spreads that -1 Ld from this detachment further).
And of course fearless, if theres anything worth giving it to.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 17:03

Aye... sometimes I take the grotesquerie and another unit of grots from the main codex (this is where the formations haemi goes) so you still get Fear and Zealot while also gaining Furious Charge and Rage.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 17:11

Always, ALWAYS, take Coven Grots, preferably the Grotesquerie as unlike combat drugs, there is not a bad option on the Latest Experiment table and the Coven PfP means that by turn three (with a Haemie), these guys start getting wounds back. As other have pointed out, Fearless is a huge benefit as it allows them to grind down anything unlucky enough to get stuck in combat with them (provided it doesn't have Hit and Run, of course) and you don't have to worry about them losing and getting swept. They are a tarpit with teeth.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 17:20

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Aye... sometimes I take the grotesquerie and another unit of grots from the main codex (this is where the formations haemi goes) so you still get Fear and Zealot while also gaining Furious Charge and Rage.

Huh, now that's an interesting idea. It would also make the 'Warlord and his unit have IWND' warlord trait *really* good.

I might have to give that a go.

@sweetbacon wrote:
Always, ALWAYS, take Coven Grots, preferably the Grotesquerie as unlike combat drugs, there is not a bad option on the Latest Experiment table and the Coven PfP means that by turn three (with a Haemie), these guys start getting wounds back.  As other have pointed out, Fearless is a huge benefit as it allows them to grind down anything unlucky enough to get stuck in combat with them (provided it doesn't have Hit and Run, of course) and you don't have to worry about them losing and getting swept.  They are a tarpit with teeth.  

Oh, I'm well aware of the advantages of coven grots (though having to take 2 units is a bit of a pain). I was more curious as to whether people's choice to reserve them or start them on the board varied depending on which sort of grots they were. if you see what I mean.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 17:24

I always deploy them as the coven formation. Faster into close combat. Except when I want to bomb him. Then I drop a 3 grot squad with haemonculus with archon with armour of misery and another haemonxulus with archangel. But in that case I use phamtasm weaponry on other squads too...
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 21:06

@The Shredder wrote:
@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Aye... sometimes I take the grotesquerie and another unit of grots from the main codex (this is where the formations haemi goes) so you still get Fear and Zealot while also gaining Furious Charge and Rage.

Huh, now that's an interesting idea. It would also make the 'Warlord and his unit have IWND' warlord trait *really* good.

I might have to give that a go.

@sweetbacon wrote:
Always, ALWAYS, take Coven Grots, preferably the Grotesquerie as unlike combat drugs, there is not a bad option on the Latest Experiment table and the Coven PfP means that by turn three (with a Haemie), these guys start getting wounds back.  As other have pointed out, Fearless is a huge benefit as it allows them to grind down anything unlucky enough to get stuck in combat with them (provided it doesn't have Hit and Run, of course) and you don't have to worry about them losing and getting swept.  They are a tarpit with teeth.  

Oh, I'm well aware of the advantages of coven grots (though having to take 2 units is a bit of a pain). I was more curious as to whether people's choice to reserve them or start them on the board varied depending on which sort of grots they were. if you see what I mean.

Oh my bad, I got sidetracked from your original question. My take is if you have a Haemie in each unit of (Coven) Grots to make them Fearless turn one, start them on the board to ensure a tasty turn two combat (zoom forward in Raiders). If not, and you only have one Haemie, I would keep the IC-less squad in reserve if possible to ensure they don't have to take a Leadership check for anything on the first turn. Because they WILL fail it if they're by themselves.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Raider Grotesques - deploy or reserve?   Wed Aug 26 2015, 21:18

I tend to start them on the board, unless they are escorting an Archon/succubus/farseer/shadowseer, in which case I Deep Strike.

The Grots make a good fire sump. Even if their 3+ cover save Raider gets popped, the odds of killing them off is minuscule. If they are escorting an HQ of value, I need to guarantee they close the distance faster. (And Webway Portaling helps maximize units in range of Archangels, Psychic Shrieks, Armor of Misery, etc.)
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