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 Advice against Eldar

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 07:14

Quote :
If you read the fist post, the league mandates 1/3rd of the points must be devoted to troop choices. So the Eldar player was constricted on what fancy stuff he could take, just as I was.

Luckily Scatterbikes are troops and are well over 1/3 of the points. So I do not understand your argument.

Quote :
I wasn't trying to prove anything about our codex or the eldar one.
Quote :

Woot! It's not all doom and gloom out there my brethren!

This is what rubs me the wrong way.
You imply that, because of your victory, there is hope for our codex.
I can accept that if you did not post his list and ask here how to tailor your list to beat his. Basically he did not tailor his list to your army while you did.
His army is a strong one but far away from maxed out while yours is nearly completely maxed out.
Don't get me wrong it is still an impressive victory but it is no indication that our codex is on par, like you implied.
And that is basically the only thing I critizise. Sorry that it hit you but I have seen a lot of people doing that recently and it really really really irks me.
Like the last guy "Dark Eldar is an OP codex, I tabled Daemonkin!" "What did he use?" "Mutilators, Berzerkers and a few Terminators" "No hounds, Sougrinder or helldrakes?" "Nope" "And what did you use?" "Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie and I spammed Disintegrators" "Ok... I see...."

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 08:43

Our ETC teams DE palyer played 5 games (of five games) against eldar in ESC just before team event. He Killed 100 scatter bikes during that path, losing only to our own Seer Council player and to a Polish player last round because he did not want to stay in tournament venue the whole night as he was not going to get any good standing after losing to his team mate. So in his last game he conceded after killign that 100. scatter bike.

No DE is not as good as Eldar. But if Eldar player does not know what DE does (they rarely do) DE can beat eldar. Warp Spiders are most broken unit Eldar dex has. Try shoot them of the board with real terrain on it.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 09:02

Pro tip @Rancid blade
Click on the name and add the person to your foe list. Problem solved.

I'm glad it turned out well. We do have a disadvantage in a way that we don't have those über auto include units. We are difficult to play. But devastating in the right hands. And because we are difficult, we don't show up at tournaments that often. Get unlucky once or do a mistake, and get punished. And you paid to be there so many people prefer reliable armies. Just like Space Marines or undead in the old warhammer fantasy.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 09:06

Did not realize that you had a pure DE player. All I saw was Scatterspam with CTC and an rather exen mix of Flyrants and gunboats...
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 09:16

Wow. I pop out for a month or two and its still "our dex sucks"? :-)

As for the topic - the Eldar list could have been more brutal. There is no point in denying that. Luckily for the original poster it is totally irrelevant as he does not have to face those brutal lists and I would be glad if I were him. So there is no point in dex-sucks-talk and you-would-lose-vs-different-list.

Talking in what-ifs is wrong on both sides. Local meta decides what is viable and what isnt.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 09:28

I don't think our codex sucks. We sure as hell don't have this killer über units but most of our units aren't bad. We do need skill to win, but it's surely possible.
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RCZ
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 10:27

I agree with you, our codex don't suck in regard as possibilities to win. However is nonetheless speed-written and very inaccurate. Low model counts, not a lot of special rules or interactions. Or low count of HQ characters.

However i don't think that the fact that a faction is hard to use automatically implies that it is powerful when mastered. It is not a subsequent conclusion. I think this is an emotive conclusion and not objective way of thinking.

Also rallying with a 3 wheels reliant robin is very hard to drive uphill, however it will never reach the times and performances of a Lancia Delta HF.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 11:02

You just kinda nailed it. My car is old, I seldom win the "traffic lights drag" but I love driving it. Add some twists and turns and the driver's skill becomes more and more relevant. Add coolness factor and that heightened feeling of true achievement when I win and you know why I dont want a new one. :-) Of course the best times I have when I just enjoy the ride...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 11:10

Sad person that I am, I keep a list of the games I've played. I just looked at it and realised that, with a Dark Eldar primary detachment, I am undefeated so far in 2015.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 11:16

A primary Detachment that takes the majority of points?

I'm curious about what army do you use. Freakshow? Psychic shriek?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 11:19

@CptMetal wrote:
A primary Detachment that takes the majority of points?

I'm curious about what army do you use. Freakshow? Psychic shriek?

My current list is MSU and can be found here.

I've also used Freakshow lists where DE/Coven is the largest portion of the points. Details here.

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RCZ
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 12:00

No think that you have misunderstood me. Ok, it is amazing to win with DE, because beyond all this polemics it is still possible. But i don't believe the equation

Hardest army to master = Most powerful army when mastered

I think it is a too much karatekid-emotively-guided point of view.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Fri Aug 28 2015, 12:44

You are right
Hard to master doesn't equal best army. But that doesn't equal worst army neither.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Sat Aug 29 2015, 04:10

That's just it. It doesn't imply EITHER. It also COULD be either, though out probably isn't, but that can't be measured if the armies are not both tuned, hence Klaivex's rustled jimmies over games between armies with drastically different build quality aims being used as a metric.

#thread
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Advice against Eldar   Sat Aug 29 2015, 05:52

Still, both armies didn't seem tailored for me. The other dude still had four scatter bike squads. When do you consider it maxed? With only scatter bikes?
Don't you think there is something wrong about this idea? Basically the rest of the codex would be worthless.

That's like saying that a Tyraniden army is only maxed if it consists of fly tyrants and nothing else.

That's a pretty poor understating on this game. Or at least a damn sad one.

Sure, in case of this optimization potential, there isn't much to do for dark Eldar, but you can't do so much wrong either. If you stay away from witches and Hellions. We simply don't have such über spam units. Does this equal we are worse? Yes. But that also equals that the Eldar codex is very poorly written. And it doesn't justify to continuously scream "the sky is falling" in everyone's face whenever they say anything positive.
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