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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 17:54

See? That's what I meant. Just whining and offering no solutions. That's like am end times prophet saying "no, you can't change anything". Do you listen to such people? Especially if you have success in your own circle of friends?

No. You don't.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 18:20

Quote :
Just whining and offering no solutions.

Rewriting the codex is not a solution. There are not many groups out there that enjoy homebrew rules, especially if they are written to make something stronger.

So what is your glorious solution aside from anectots how you rule your hyper competitive gaming group where everyone is strictly worse than you?
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 18:29

To be honest, 7th edition is broken as a whole. The entire system needs to be rewritten, not just our codex.

But we've easily got the worst deal. Sharing it with Sisters, another army Games Workshop apparently hates.

Post edited by Count Adhemar for breach of forum rules
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 18:33

@CptMetal wrote:
See? That's what I meant. Just whining and offering no solutions. That's like am end times prophet saying "no, you can't change anything". Do you listen to such people? Especially if you have success in your own circle of friends?

No. You don't.

The only realistic "solution" I see is using DE models as mere "count as" for Craftworld armies
And many people don't even have success in their own circle of friends.
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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 18:35

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
Just whining and offering no solutions.

Rewriting the codex is not a solution. There are not many groups out there that enjoy homebrew rules, especially if they are written to make something stronger.

So what is your glorious solution aside from anectots how you rule your hyper competitive gaming group where everyone is strictly worse than you?

So I went all the way back to the beginning of the thread because I couldn't recall Cptn Metal saying anything about home brew rules, and how he rules his hyper competitive gaming group. Did you even read his post(s)? And, in fact he did offer various solutions from page 1, which might not make everybody happy, but hey, at least he's being constructive!

And, funny enough, but there don't seem to be any bat reps from all of you guys complaining so others could maybe help you out. Because it's utterly impossible that maybe positioning, movement or target selection could have contributed to you not having success, right? I know when I lose that's at least part of the issue. So common, let's see some bat reps here and figure this thing out! We're all on the same side after all! Even rivaling cabals work together during raids! Smile

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Check out my Kabal of the Withering Gardens - http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12351-kabal-of-the-withering-gardens
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 19:30

*insert thank you gif*
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Sulmo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 20:31

I've removed the offensive term that you were asking about Sulmo and therefore also removed it from your own post - Count Adhemar
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 20:49

GW. Games Workshop. I think it's English (American?) slang.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Tue Aug 25 2015, 23:15

Quote :
I'm back, denizens of Dark City... only to see that thoughts similar to mine are haunting other minds.

In fact, I believe our codex is pretty much worthless. Just that. As ETC/ESC participants have demonstrated, we're on par with Sisters. People were bringing Blood Angels, Orks, Space Wolves, Marines based on tacticals and assaults in drop pods and rhinos and other lists internet wisdom have dismissed as subpar. Of course, they have not demonstrated the best results, but they were able to participate, able to compete.

Nobody. No [a lot of obscene words, racism and homophobia] body thought it will be a good idea to bring Dark Eldar to the table. Some armies listed "DE primairy", but, in fact, "Primary" detachment consisted of 2 WWP Archons and minimal troops, with the rest filled by Craftworlders. And some French guy I believe used a small amount of reavers to complement his scatterbike army.

That's it, lads. Things have gone really south for dark eldar. We're outright unplayable, in addition to being a boring army with little to no special rules or interesting tricks, all of them were taken away by the "new" nerfdex.
Thanks for news flash now pack it back in until next edition. L8r

In other news I'm still winning with bad lists.. wheres the duck you need him eh?
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 02:31

+1 on giving up on dark eldar, +....0.7 or so on giving up on 40k altogether.  If i didn't still have 4 armies I would definitively have thrown in the towel after the craftworld codex dropped.  It's at least as unbalanced as the dark eldar one, just in the other direction.  I refuse to play craftworlders though, Even though have like 8k worth of craftworlders I've been collecting since the mid 90s.

If it weren't for the relatively strong necron and space marine codices and perhaps more so the corrective nids and ork supplements, I'd swear 40k was forcing the WHFB suicide cycle to occur again.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 03:34

I think we'll all see Necron style codexes eventually. In the same way that the removal of model-less units was a business driven trend that continued throughout an entire codex cycle, I think the push for more formations will continue throughout the current codex cycle.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 05:14

Actually, I like the general feeling of the true kin. The only thing bothering me is that Space Marines are immune to Phantasm weaponry.
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 05:18

Soulfright is a joke of a rule. As somebody have already pointed out, on average, in removes one guardsman. It does not work on fearless units, and, well, any important unit is fearless. Every Imperial army can ally with marines. CWE have two fearless bubbles, Telepathy school has a power which makes a unit fearless.

If only it did stack, phantasm launchers and tormentors would be worth it. But right now it's even more of a joke than Wyches.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 05:53

So you're basically the end times prophet? I hope this is just your behavior in this forum and not everywhere else. Don't whine, try to develop something with us.

Like Jim did with his freakshow lists. And I had great success against guard with it and the archangel. But that's purely anecdotal of course.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 06:25

First off, 'Jew' by itself is indeed, not a slur.  However, replacing 'Geedub' with 'Jewdub' in reference to Games Workshop is a clear attempt to correlate Games Workshop's perceived nefarious business practices with the negative stereotype of jews as a greedy, conniving people, and is a slur.  

@Kinjallo wrote:
Soulfright is a joke of a rule. As somebody have already pointed out, on average, in removes one guardsman. It does not work on fearless units, and, well, any important unit is fearless. Every Imperial army can ally with marines. CWE have two fearless bubbles, Telepathy school has a power which makes a unit fearless.

If only it did stack, phantasm launchers and tormentors would be worth it. But right now it's even more of a joke than Wyches.

More of a joke than wyches?  



Soulfright should have at least some kind of diminished effect on ATSKNF, but the Fearless rule is hardly a concern.  Fearless units aren't that common at all.  Codex: Chaos Daemons?  Not Fearless. Guard? Only the Priests themselves; the rest of the blob they accompany can have the Soulfright wounds allocated to them normally.  Tyranids?  Much like the guard blobs, the models not in synapse range do not have the Fearless rule, even if their unit is benefitting from it, and are still vulnerable to Soulfright.

Do most units have good leadership scores?  Of course.  But Dark Eldar can easily overcome that; after all, we have several options for lowering leadership, including a supplement where literally every detachment and formation generates a negative leadership bubble (which stack with one another).

Wyches have no use, no function, and no place in a Dark Eldar list these days.  Soulfright weapons, especially in campaigns, leagues, or tournaments where the distribution of armies can be estimated or even known ahead of time, can still make a delightful addition to a list, given both moderation and preparation.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 06:56

I'm with you on all accounts @jimsolo
Except that Wyches have no use. Granted, their effectiveness or cost efficiency isn't at 100%, but then neither are tactical marines on their own. Wyches, especially in turn 3 onward are really great at taking on power weapons and being annoyingly hard to remove from combat. Similar to how thunder wolf riders with shields don't care about ap of weapons (but, of course, not to their extreme!)

I will say that they don't belong in a netlist, but that's not to say they're as useless as, say... Mandrakes!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:04

Oh, we can go rounds on that one. Laughing Mandrakes are head-and-shoulders above wyches in this codex. Mandrakes can at least be a situational 'take.' Barring a Highlander tournament, I can't see a single reason to take wyches.
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:05

Soulfright is just as useless, as wyches. It's limited to one test, which a lot of armies ignore, all of the big nasty units (deathstars, vehicles) ignore, and even against ones who have no special defences it's mediocre. Have you seen a psychic power called "psychic shrike"? It's better soulfright. Way better. And with bigger range, too. And psykers get it for free as they're crap their pants trying to score invisibility power. And they don't need to wait until the end of their phase to see whether their attack worked. And you can psishrike a unit more than once.



Last edited by Kinjallo on Wed Aug 26 2015, 12:18; edited 1 time in total
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:16

But you can do both.

Space Marines are immune. Other than Space Marines and Khornate Daemonkin, who else is immune to Soulfright? No codex in its entirety, and very few units. Giving a unit Fearless doesn't make it immune to Soulfright. It just makes it immune to Morale checks. (The model that gave the unit Fearless is immune, but once the scrubs he travels with have been peeled away, Splinter Cannons will fix his little red wagon but good.)

One to two Soulfright weapons plus the Archangel (next-level Soulfright, although the two stack) can be a great addition to many armies, especially when dealing with competitive environments where the enemy armies can be predicted or even known for sure.
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:26

you don't need a soulfright to deal with cultists, you need a splinter rifle. Psychic powers make the entire unit fearless. Or the entire army, if we're speaking about Will of Asyrian. Wraith-anything is Fearless.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12550-de-lists-in-the-etc-2015

Here is a thread containing lists for the one of the most competitive events in the world. Find a single Soulfright weapon.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:34

@Jimsolo wrote:
Oh, we can go rounds on that one.  Laughing   Mandrakes are head-and-shoulders above wyches in this codex.  Mandrakes can at least be a situational 'take.'  Barring a Highlander tournament, I can't see a single reason to take wyches.  
Maybe we shouldn't go rounds!
But I will say that a unit of Wyches held up Helbrecht all game. A 4++/5+(+) save makes them quite survivable in combat. Let alone access to combat drugs.
Having the daemon save taken from mandrakes forces them to skirt the 18" baleblast range, but they'd crumble to a brisk deep tissue massage.

I will still play both because I love the models Very Happy
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 07:49

Mandrakes are mainly used as scout move denial
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 08:02

Why do I care about scouts? The closer they are to me, the sooner I get into combat.

In 8th ed fantasy, scouts were used as vaguard denial (which was very very helpful), but i see no down side to having my enemy close to me!
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Kinjallo
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 08:13

Well, let's say you're going second. And you have an all-bike Vanilla army coming to you with plasma- and grav- guns. Mandrakes can block them from getting too close, thus, saving a lot of your units.

To be honest, if you don't understand why scout move denial is important, we should not have this discussion. Of course, it is not must have - only a handful of armies utilize mass-scout moves, but if you're expecting to face such an opponent, mandrakes can turn a crushing defeat (I'm speaking about 0-20 here) to an even game.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Why I give up   Wed Aug 26 2015, 09:00

I can see why some armies would like scout denial, but I run a combat list so I'm all for having models close enough for me to charge
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