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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 10:49

So I was thinking recently about how alot of Dark Eldar players are running a single Lhamean as an HQ tax, myself included. Since I have been using one she has been ok, she does the job in that I spend 10pts on her and move on with the rest of the list, she starts in reserve and walks onto an objective.

For 15pts more how about a Sslyth? Their weakness is their leadership but by taking just the one you it becomes more of a moot point as they're not taking many tests now and you have a 2W T5 model which is a lot harder shift and would require real firepower to remove.

Thoughts on this as an idea?

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 11:32

Well, if you're going for maximum shooting per force org slot then a sslyth will give more shots.
What i've seen is the Lhamaean being taken so you can have a "free" venom. Which is probably the best use of points.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 11:49

If you're taking a single court member to juke the HQ tax, then yeah, a Sslyth might be a better take than the Lhamean.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 11:59

I think as taxes go they're all in the same bin. The lhamaean is worthless. Medusa nearly although can be situationally more useful. A sslyth is potentially much better (theoretically for me), and would almost be decent if it was movement 12" actually. I run lone clawed fiends so I'm comparing what I know.

That said I still prefer the archon.
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 19:58

I hate the idea of tax units. I want every point spent to mean something and to have a purpose in the list. A single Lhamaean can't do anything aggressive at all. the only purpose she has is to sit on a backfield objective and hope that a card comes out for that objective. This is the only way she can affect the game, unless you can assign warlord else where and just use her as a suicide combat unit.

A Sslyth might be better on paper than the Lhamaean but in order to make it better you have to actually use it. The Sslyth would have to be up there with the rest of your army, maybe it'll be a part of the last wave to hit but it still needs to be up there shooting and maybe assaulting. Otherwise you're paying more points for the exact same one trick that a Lhamaean can pull - objective camping. But how effective is one Sslyth? You're still having to rely on other units to do 99% of the work, all a Sslyth is doing is throwing in a couple more shots to something a gunboat has already unloaded into. Or the Sslyth might be assaulting a unit already engaged by Grots or Incubi. By itself the Sslyth can't do anything so you have to ask the question is it really worth it? Lets make up some random numbers here, if a gunboat can put out say 6.5 wounds average on a unit and a Sslyth can put out say 0.6 is thta really worth it? Is the Sslyth throwing shots into the unit really gonna make a game changing difference? Might those extra 15 points be better spent on a Splinter Cannon for a gunboat instead?

On paper it looks like a Sslyth would be better but it's impact is negligible by itself, as is the impact of any single model Court choice. The only reason to take this unit is to avoid buying a real HQ unit, saving you a good chunk of points. None of them have any real impact on the game outside of getting lucky with objectives in your half of the table.

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TSkouboe
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 20:23

I don't think Sky Serpent wanted offense. He just wants his tax to survive longer in its little hiding place.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 20:26

@TSkouboe wrote:
I don't think Sky Serpent wanted offense. He just wants his tax to survive longer in its little hiding place.

IMO the only way either unit survives at all is by being out of LOS, in which case it makes no difference if it's a Sslyth or a Lhamaean.

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 20:46

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@TSkouboe wrote:
I don't think Sky Serpent wanted offense. He just wants his tax to survive longer in its little hiding place.

IMO the only way either unit survives at all is by being out of LOS, in which case it makes no difference if it's a Sslyth or a Lhamaean.

Lhamean is smaller afro

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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Fri Aug 14 2015, 21:21

Sslyth is tougher.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 02:53

My lhameian is not just a tax... in most of my lists, she is an overwatch eater for better units.

Incubi charging plasma toting crisis suits? You better belive that lone lhameian is going in first!

Think of her as a 10 point banshee mask that is one use only.

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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 07:07

It's sad that we as Dark Eldar players would even want to take a ten point model as an HQ tax instead of an Archon, Succubus or Heamonculus.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 07:41

I miss the good old time when Urien could give you S6, furious charge grots.
Or the 2 millions-attacks-Lelith

Sad
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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 07:50

I miss the Duke...
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 08:15

@The PayneTrayn wrote:
I miss the Duke...

Now I'm sad. It's like I just lost him all over again...
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 20:41

Pretending an Archon is the Duke just isn't the same for me, especially considering he can't even take combat drugs or venom blades...

Nice to see I provoked a small amount of debate. Smile

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sat Aug 15 2015, 23:27

@Sky Serpent wrote:
So I was thinking recently about how alot of Dark Eldar players are running a single Lhamean as an HQ tax, myself included. Since I have been using one she has been ok, she does the job in that I spend 10pts on her and move on with the rest of the list, she starts in reserve and walks onto an objective.

For 15pts more how about a Sslyth? Their weakness is their leadership but by taking just the one you it becomes more of a moot point as they're not taking many tests now and you have a 2W T5 model which is a lot harder shift and would require real firepower to remove.

Thoughts on this as an idea?

To be honest, I don't see Sslyths as requiring a great deal more firepower to remove. When you have a single, 2-wound model with basically no save, T5 and FNP only gets you so far.

I'd rather have the Lhamaean (and just try to hide it out of LoS), or else use Medusae and play more aggressively with them.

More importantly though, I'm a real miser when it comes to points - and virtually all of my squads are cut to the bone. In this case, it's very unlikely that I'd have 15pts extra to spend in the first place.

@lament.config wrote:
It's sad that we as Dark Eldar players would even want to take a ten point model as an HQ tax instead of an Archon, Succubus or Heamonculus.

Speaking personally, I always take an Archon or Haemonculus as my warlord. Not because they're good, but because I just can't stand the idea of not having a character in my list. It's incredibly depressing that I could easily improve my lists by replacing said character with a 10pt Lhamaean in a venom.

As someone who likes the character aspect of 40k, this is something I really despise. I feel like I'm constantly being forced to choose between fluff and function. I can be fluffy and take an Archon, or I can can be functional and take a lhamaean with venom. I can be fluffy and kit out my HQ, or I can be functional and spend those points elsewhere - because our wargear section is a bunch of overpriced garbage that would embarrass a blind ork with a pickaxe through its skull.

I'm sure I've said this before, but I'm going to say it again - our HQs are quite possibly the worst in the game. They excel at nothing. Their defence ranges from 'horribly overpriced and unreliable' to 'nonexistant'. Two of them have no support abilities whatsoever, and the third one is about as good at support as a pile of dry crackers. They don't even function as all-rounders. because their weapons are so pathetic even against ideal targets. I mean, let's go through them:

- Succubus. So, we have a T3 HQ who only gets a save in combat (and even then only 4++). She can't do anything outside of melee. But, once we finally get the fragile cow into melee, we're rewarded with... some S4 AP2 attacks. The only way I could respond to this further would be with a page of swears.

- Archon. So, for 10pts less than an Autarch, he gets +1WS, +1BS and +1I, but loses the Haywire grenades. And the 3+ armour. And the 4+ invulnerable. And the +1/-1 to all reserve rolls. And access to jetbikes and wings. Um... what are we paying for again? Is it the ability to buy really crap melee weapons?

- Haemonculus. He has one support ability, which only affects his own squad and is bloody awful. After that, he's probably less durable than the 25pt Sslyth (+1 wound, but -1 toughness, slightly worse armour and dies instantly to S8). Outstanding. He's also worse in combat (both have 4 attacks, but S5 is much more important than WS5), and even lacks anything resembling the Sslyth's Shardcarbine. But at least he can take such fearsome weapons as the Mindphase Gauntlet and Liquifier Gun.  Rolling Eyes


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to cheer myself up by torturing some space-kittens . Twisted Evil
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Sun Aug 16 2015, 19:17

@The Shredder wrote:
It's incredibly depressing that I could easily improve my lists by replacing said character with a 10pt Lhamaean in a venom.

THIS!!! ^
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Mon Aug 17 2015, 12:25

@The Shredder wrote:

To be honest.....
I'm going to cheer myself up by torturing some space-kittens . Twisted Evil

jesus man you can really put in words what it feels like to play DE. I kindof feel depressed and somewhat dont want to play anymore, or at least something else ...
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Mon Aug 17 2015, 15:11

@doriii wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:

To be honest.....
I'm going to cheer myself up by torturing some space-kittens . Twisted Evil

jesus man you can really put in words what it feels like to play DE. I kindof feel depressed and somewhat dont want to play anymore, or at least something else ...

Only somewhat. I love my Dark Eldar, as I'm sure we all do. In games these days I've been running an Archon and a succubus. The Archon hides behind his shadow field and does his best to stay alive, while the succubus gets sent on suicide missions.
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ThePhish
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 01:37

I haven't found where we are allowed to take a sslyth as an HQ at all. What am I missing? Anyone have a link any discussion? I didn't find one in my quick search.

Thanks in advance.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 01:45

@ThePhish wrote:
I haven't found where we are allowed to take a sslyth as an HQ at all.  What am I missing?  Anyone have a link any discussion?  I didn't find one in my quick search.

It's part of a Court of the Archon. You only need 1 model for a legal court, so you can just take a single Sslyth.
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 02:08

Ok, I got that, but where is the rule allowing a court/Lhaeman without the Archon?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 02:11

@ThePhish wrote:
Ok, I got that, but where is the rule allowing a court/Lhaeman without the Archon?

It's a normal HQ choice now.

Taking an Archon just gets you a Court that doesn't take up a HQ slot. You can still take a court without an Archon as a standard HQ choice.
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ThePhish
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 02:49

Do you by chance have a page reference?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Sslyth Tax > Lhamean Tax   Tue Aug 18 2015, 03:11

Sorry, I'm a little confused here.

When you say you want a page reference, what exactly are you looking for?

As far as I'm aware, all the relevant information is on the Court's own page. Note the HQ symbol at the top of the page, just as with the Archon, Succubus, Haemonculus and all other HQ choices.
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