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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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Join date : 2014-11-24
Location : South Central England

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PostSubject: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2015, 23:26

Just interested in ideas. What do you guys use to mark your Venoms and Raiders as destroyed (rather than exploded for table removal) during a game? I've been using cotton wool, but it's not brilliant looking and also, due to the "pointiness" of our vehicles, tends to get quite stuck if you aren't careful Smile
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nexs
Wych
nexs

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Join date : 2014-12-28

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2015, 00:05

I will, at some point before my tournament, make some smoke markers from hobby filler fluff stuff. Usually i turn them on their side or remove the sail.
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2015, 09:34

I got "told off" during my last game for turning my Venoms onto their sides. He said I was just doing it to give cover to the troops that had fallen out and there is nothing in the book that says I am allowed to do that. After reading quite a bit, I couldn't find anything that allowed it either. Did I miss it? The only reference I could find is that a skimmer should remove its base if possible (mine are glued) and if not they should stay with the "engines stuck on"
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Creeping Darkness
Wych
Creeping Darkness

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 06:34

I glued some tufts of cotton wool to a 40mm base, then sprayed it black. Some added orange down the bottom and they make very servicable smoke markers.

I also left my flying bases detachable, but I've found that generally I just put the smoke on and call it done.
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nexs
Wych
nexs

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 07:12

@Hellstrom wrote:
I got "told off" during my last game for turning my Venoms onto their sides.  He said I was just doing it to give cover to the troops that had fallen out and there is nothing in the book that says I am allowed to do that.  After reading quite a bit, I couldn't find anything that allowed it either.  Did I miss it?  The only reference I could find is that a skimmer should remove its base if possible (mine are glued) and if not they should stay with the "engines stuck on"

Technically, i think you're supposed to just leave it standing as the anti-grav engines stay on for some reason. But I would turn them on the side. After all, they just become terrain and they provide the same mass of cover regardless of angle.
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 09:19

Do they? Why? I can see a model clearly underneath a raider. No cover for me there .... Only true LOS cover exists in 7th edition rules.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 09:32

My bases are removable for easier transporting of the models so I just remove the base.

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nexs
Wych
nexs

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 10:51

@Hellstrom wrote:
Do they? Why? I can see a model clearly underneath a raider. No cover for me there .... Only true LOS cover exists in 7th edition rules.
If your model is in, or being shot at through terrain (which a dead vehicle becomes) a model gets a cover save. The only time where the physical size of the dead vehicle matters is when getting cover for another vehicle. In which case the physical size of the dead vehicle is the same regardless of which angle is lays on the table.
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 16:59

BRB references for this please?  As far as I have read, you are completely incorrect, but I would love to be proven wrong.
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 17:04

Page 14, second from last paragraph tells us to draw LOS.
Page 37, under "determining Cover Saves" it tells us that at least 25% of the model should be obscured.

There is no such thing as "area terrain" in 7th edition, unless you are using specific GW terrain pieces that specify this rule.

Get a Raider.  Place a model behind it.  Place a shooting model 10" away and shoot under the Raider.  I can clearly see the whole model I'm shooting.  Therefore, no cover save.
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nexs
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nexs

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2015, 23:43

True about the 25% obscured. But a raider on its stand will still obscure 25% of a kabalite, it's pretty easy to obscure 25% of an infantry footslogger (bear in mind that only one model needs to be obscured by one shooter to get cover).
Also, on the page following the cover diagram, it talks about intervening models granting a 5+ cover save.
Take your pick.

Another option could be to get bits and pieces of left over vehicle and make a piece of terrain to put on the ground where the model was.
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Hellstrom
Wych
Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 00:03

Sort of .. except that only the single model that is in cover would get the cover save, the rest of the unit wouldn't.
Intervening, means in the way somehow .... I.e. 25% cover again.

You can't swop your vehicle out for a piece of terrain ..... the rules say, leave your vehicle where it is, not swop it for a nice piece of LOS if it helps you.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 00:09

There's no mention of 25% in the "intervening models" section. it even explicitly states that if there's a model gap (most likely due to casualties) that a model behind the unit still gets a cover save.

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Hellstrom
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Hellstrom

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 09:20

Once destroyed a vehicle isn't a model anymore, it's terrain. You can't get a save from a "terrain gap". "Intervening models" rule is irrelevant.
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nexs
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nexs

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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2015, 11:40

Fine by me if you don't want cover! But you'd be hard pressed to find a raider that wouldn't obscure enough to give a cover save.
And anyone who refuses to give you the save isn't worth playing against.
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koshi482
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 10 2015, 02:32

Vehicle are counted as flat terrain. No cover provided unless inside the area it was destroyed in

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 17 2015, 07:48

I intend to build wrecks. All of the easy options, such as removing the base or turning the model on its side, look bad and put my paint job at unnecessary risk.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: "hulled out" vehicle marker   "hulled out" vehicle marker I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 17 2015, 11:59

On topic, I use coloured cotton wool on very small bases as hull point markers.
I grabbed a set of Flames of War fire/smoke wool for this.
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